1/72 - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vc by Airfix - released

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

5 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

Bf109A/B/C/D

What about the newer AMG kits ? 
I have this one in my stash thanks to @Procopius. 

[IanC]

On 27/01/2020 at 16:16, John Thompson said:

Regardless of how often I've moaned about the Yak-9 or other VVS subjects, speaking sensibly (I think I remember how) I really don't expect Airfix to jump on it anytime soon. If ever. The market was much different in the early '60's when they did it the first time. I'm quite interested in the promised Spitfire Vc kit; I may not buy more than one, but I will buy one!

 

John

Could you not put some red stars on it? 🙂Did the Soviets get the Vc? I know they were given a load of IXs.  <unnecessary dig at Russia removed>

 

And for whats it's worth, I would like a Yak 9 too!

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mike
Please don't dismiss a whole country offhand.

[Denford]

22 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

This should (will be) a  real money earner for them IMHO and mean that they can invest in those more esoteric subjects that we all crave such a P-38 and Typhoon 2/V/VI in 72nd scale plus many other subjects in different scales.

Revisiting this posting a second time!

- '...we all crave..' looks suspiciously like the royal 'We', in this case meaning 'I'.

- Whether a subject is esoteric is rather subjective: I wouldn't call either a P-38 or Tempest series esoteric.  So why wasn't a P-38 tooled?  Because a Beaufort was chosen instead.  Why not the Tempest? Because a Spitfire Vc was chosen instead.

- '… many other subjects in different scales'.  Remember that this year we have FOUR aircraft.  Now admittedly the Vulcan is large, so in its place could have been 2 or maybe even 3 alternatives.  There is a limit, and a fairly small limit too, to the number of new subjects that can be tooled each year.  This seems to be overlooked by some BM correspondents who submit lists running into double figures! 

Circumstantial evidence suggests that when Phoenix asset management took over the running of Hornby (2 years ago?) several\most\all subjects were put on hold.  Encouragingly, remarks at Telford suggest that Airfix are now 'up to speed'.  However as even the smallest subjects takes at least at least a year to tool, one can be optimistic that output will increase, though perhaps not as much as many would wish.

As for the subjects there many, such as the Scimitar, which they are unlikely to tool.  That said, and even with their perceived selection policy, there are many, many others they could, and one day surely will.  But for every one selected, others will be passed by.  'Many be called but few be chosen' is the phrase that comes to mind.

[Vulcanicity]

34 minutes ago, IanC said:

Did the Soviets get the Vc? I know they were given a load of IXs. Not that they deserved them...

 

Bit rich, considering they tied down a huge proportion of the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht in the east with sheer determination and vast expenditure of blood...

[Mr T]

Airfix will produce what they think will sell enough of to make a decent return on their investment, now that might be a kit that I want to build or it might not be in which case Airfix do not get my money. However, Airfix  are also bright enough to produce a range of kits some of which I will want to build and so they will get some money off me and everyone is happyish. 

Regarding the discussion on 'short run' kits, I thought that as you built more models your skill and confidence level increased and so what was challenging becomes less so. I suppose I am lucky in that when I started modelling 'seriously' I had to learn new skills as if I wanted to build a Fulmar I learnt about building vacform kits, which turned out to be not so bad after all. Kit building is a hobby for most of us and we put into what we want to and as humans we are all different. 

Back to the Spitfire, looks promising and although I have recently finished a Sword Vc and Seafire IIC, I will end up getting one 

[IanC]

1 minute ago, Vulcanicity said:

Bit rich, considering they tied down a huge proportion of the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht in the east with sheer determination and vast expenditure of blood...

Tongue in cheek comment... But since you bring it up, let's not forget the determination and blood expended getting the stuff there too. No one doubts the Soviet Union was responsible for the overwhelming damage done to the Wehrmacht. Keeping them in the war was vital. But the Allies were also rightly astounded by the official ingratitude shown for the millions of dollars/pounds spent propping them up when they most needed it. The Soviets never admitted the value they derived from Western Allied assistance, even though recent research has revealed just how vital it was (the US was actually still trying to get paid for non-military aid in the 1990s). A big public thank you might have been enough, but it wasn't Uncle Joe's style!

 

Still, it all worked out ok in the end. Sort of.

 

Apologies for the thread drift.

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, IanC said:

Did the Soviets get the Vc? I know they were given a load of IXs.

Vb's, which they didn't like much, and lots of IXe's,  which they did,  and served until 1947-48, with the PVO (air defence) units, I read in 1945 27 out of 81 PVO units flew Spitfire IX's.

38 minutes ago, IanC said:

But the Allies were also rightly astounded by the official ingratitude shown for the millions of dollars/pounds spent propping them up when they most needed it. The Soviets never admitted the value they derived from Western Allied assistance, even though recent research has revealed just how vital it was (the US was actually still trying to get paid for non-military aid in the 1990s). A big public thank you might have been enough, but it wasn't Uncle Joe's style!

Realpolitik kicking in.  It was important to down play Western aid,  not just as aid, but also because in some cases it was better then what they made... not a good ad for communist utopia 

 Yes, it was vital for the Soviet war machine, oft forgotten they got

Quote

In addition to the aircraft deliveries American Lend-lease deliveries to Russia included also more than 400.000 trucks, over 12.000 tanks and other combat vehicles, 32.000 motorcycles, 13.000 locomotives and railway cars, 8.000 anti-aircraft cannons and machine-guns, 135.000 submachine guns, 300.000 tons of explosives, 40.000 field radios, some 400 radar systems, 400.000 metal cutting machi­ne tools, several million tons of foodstuff, steel, other metals, oil and gasoline, chemicals etc.

 they really liked the US 6x6 truck, and these well made and reliable vehicles allowed them to then build tanks instead.  

The quality of many lend lease items was also noted compared to Soviet equivalents.   And despite the oft repeated assertion, the P-39 was not used as tank buster, but as an air superiority fighter... note this was the mount of the 2nd and 3rd highest scoring VVS aces (Pokryshin and Rechkalov) and the P-39' and P-63 were also used until as late as 1950 ...as trainers for jets pilots as they had tricycle undercarriages

 

This is well worth a read for a concise summary (an expanded view of some of the above points)

https://lend-lease.net/articles-en/aircraft-deliveries-to-the-soviet-union/

 

It's a fascinating area, and more and more photos of VVS planes are turning up on Russian sites all the time, which is great for the modeller!

 

cheers

T

[Adam Poultney]

3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

What about the newer AMG kits ? 
I have this one in my stash thanks to @Procopius. 

They're quite expensive, like 20 quid for a 1/72 bf109 is a bit steep. 

[fishplanebeer]

The reality is that if you go to any mainstream model shop, such as Hobby Craft, although they are now a dying breed, you will not find anything other than Airfix, Revell, Italleri and Tamiya and no sight of Zvezda, Modelsvit, Eduard etc...etc.. etc.. OK us in the know will go to various fora and visit on-line shops of well repute but just wonder about the economics and market dynamics of the larger brands?

 

They cannot exist purely on niche interest so must have to sell volume into the 'modest/beginner' end of the market with very well known kits. To be honest most people I know below the age of 40 can't even differentiate between a Spitfire and Hurricane of any variant so I suspect we are now a dying breed anyway!

 

Not an easy problem to juggle with here but producing good kits at a sensible prices (not Hasegawa or Eduard as they ain't cheap) would seem to be a good way forward. For example if Airfix had made their new-ish Spit 9 half decent (along with their new-ish Bf109-G6) then I suspect they would have stolen much of Eduard's thunder across the board, especially at less than £10 per kit - an opportunity missed IMHO but what do I know?

 

Kind Regards

Colin.

[Troy Smith]

12 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

or Eduard as they ain't cheap

they are  if you shop around. 

Creative Models regularly have various Eduard kits in their specials,  and for example their 1/48th Spitfire IX Profipacks have been available for £21... cheapest I have seen the new Airfix Mk.XIV is about £21 posted (Creative is free post over £30 BTW)  and the Eduard has etch, masks and 5 decal options....

Even at compared full retail,  £30.00 vs £21,  if you got masks, basic etch and new decals for the Airfix then ....  

The Eduard weekend 48th IX's have been under £14...

22 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

For example if Airfix had made their new-ish Spit 9 half decent (along with their new-ish Bf109-G6) then I suspect they would have stolen much of Eduard's thunder across the board, especially at less than £10 per kit

an Eduard weekend 1/72 Spitfire is £11, profipack is £15....

 

 

15 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

mainstream model shop, such as Hobby Craft, although they are now a dying breed, you will not find anything other than Airfix, Revell, Italleri and Tamiya and no sight of Zvezda

funnily enough Hobbycraft have been seeling some Zvezda 1/100th armour kit for £4 a pop recently...

 

One thing Airifx have managed to stop, to benefit of shops, is discounting, usually before as too many kits in a run, need space or funds, sell cheap and undercut,  now they have it running tight and the kits don't end up massively discounted as they did a few years back. 

I've not seen the new Airfix kits I'm interested in cheap. (eg 1/48 Meteor, Sea Fury, Hunter, Spitfire XIV) 

Good for Airfix,  (not so good for me...but how many more do I need...) 

30 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

To be honest most people I know below the age of 40 can't even differentiate between a Spitfire and Hurricane of any variant so I suspect we are now a dying breed anyway!

to be honest nobody who is not in some way an aviation buff can... most people couldn't tell the difference between a Spitfire and a Hurricane full stop, but there is a cross over into flight sim games,  I seen some great work done by flight sim skinners while searching for images.

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, fishplanebeer said:

or Eduard as they ain't cheap

Im on a very tight budget (disability) but I can afford and quite regularly purchase Eduard kits/over-tree’s. The Taxes must be bad where you are so I feel for you on that front. I can get a weekend edition 1/72  Focke-wulf or Spitfire for about $13-$18. The over-trees are around $10 or $14 in 1/72 scale. The last two 109’s I built in 1/48, were both over-trees and each was only $19 before tax. 

[Michael louey]

17 hours ago, Denford said:

In the case of the Beaufort I'd expect a sizeable proportion of sales to be to Australia: are we still on the Airfix Spitfire Vc thread?

Hi Denford,

 

Unfortunately, the currently advertised Beaufort won't have much appeal to Australian modellers. Our DAP Beauforts had more differences to the Taurus engined ones than there are differences between a Mk I and Mk V Spitfire.

 

Regards

 

Michael

[alt-92]

7 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

The reality is that if you go to any mainstream model shop, such as Hobby Craft, although they are now a dying breed, you will not find anything other than Airfix, Revell, Italleri and Tamiya and no sight of Zvezda, Modelsvit, Eduard etc.

Maybe in the UK, but even on the continent there's been a right 'culling of the herd' as far as mainstream hobby model stores is concerned. Most remaining are either RC specialised, or those model stores that have carved out their spot being REALLY good.

Those stores left tend to have more other brands than the standard fare.

(you should see AMS near Schiphol - take a walk inside, turn right behind the Iskra - and this is a couple of years ago so theres even more different brands now)

Edited January 28, 2020 by alt-92

[Giorgio N]

12 hours ago, IanC said:

Tongue in cheek comment... But since you bring it up, let's not forget the determination and blood expended getting the stuff there too. No one doubts the Soviet Union was responsible for the overwhelming damage done to the Wehrmacht. Keeping them in the war was vital. But the Allies were also rightly astounded by the official ingratitude shown for the millions of dollars/pounds spent propping them up when they most needed it. The Soviets never admitted the value they derived from Western Allied assistance, even though recent research has revealed just how vital it was (the US was actually still trying to get paid for non-military aid in the 1990s). A big public thank you might have been enough, but it wasn't Uncle Joe's style!

 

Still, it all worked out ok in the end. Sort of.

 

Apologies for the thread drift.

 

The Soviets may have sounded ungrateful but more than repaid the value of those materials by committing human resources that the Western allies were not willing to throw into the war. The pact was clear, the US and in a much more limited way Britain would have sent materials, the Soviets would have kept sending man after man against the Germans. The US and Britain may have put millions of dollars on the scale but this is more than balanced by the 8 to 11 milion soldiers that the Soviets lost, while inflicting over 80% of the casualties that Germany suffered during WW2

[IanC]

2 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

The Soviets may have sounded ungrateful but more than repaid the value of those materials by committing human resources that the Western allies were not willing to throw into the war. The pact was clear, the US and in a much more limited way Britain would have sent materials, the Soviets would have kept sending man after man against the Germans. The US and Britain may have put millions of dollars on the scale but this is more than balanced by the 8 to 11 milion soldiers that the Soviets lost, while inflicting over 80% of the casualties that Germany suffered during WW2

 

Yes I think we can all agree on that. The military and civilian sacrifice of the USSR was immense.

 

But we had better steer things back to the Airfix Spitfire Vc pronto...!

 

 

[Giorgio N]

Eduard Spitfires expensive ???? If comparing their 1/72 weekend edition with a standard Airfix Series 2 kit, they are only a few p more expensive... at Hannants, the Weekend Spit ix is listed at £ 10.60 while the Airfix series 2 are listed at £ 9.99... oh my God, it's 61 p. more, what a disgrace !

[Giorgio N]

Just now, IanC said:

 

Yes I think we can all agree on that. The military and civilian sacrifice of the USSR was immense.

 

But we had better steer things back to the Airfix Spitfire Vc pronto...!

 

 

 Speaking of which, no Vc was used by the Soviets, as they were only sent Vbs. Not too many in reality, less than 150. Later they received Mk.IXs but never Vcs

Not much of a problem as there are several other interesting markings that can be applied to this subvariant

 

 

[Wince]

13 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Eduard Spitfires expensive ???? If comparing their 1/72 weekend edition with a standard Airfix Series 2 kit, they are only a few p more expensive... at Hannants, the Weekend Spit ix is listed at £ 10.60 while the Airfix series 2 are listed at £ 9.99... oh my God, it's 61 p. more, what a disgrace !

My lms has the profi pack at 12.99. A spit my 1/2 by airfix is 9.99. For 3 quid you get plenty more in the box so even the profi pack ones are banging value given the masks, brass, extra decals etc etc. 

[Andre B]

As I for most of time are an 1/72 P-51D builder (at least seven Airfix P-51D) I was surpriced that I had no more than four of Airfix latest Spitfire Mk. I/II/Va in the stash and on the work bench.  I would probably get one or two Spitfire Vc as well. And for sure if there is an opurtunity to build an Seafire I would get it.

 

With that many mainstream Airfix Mustang's and Spitfire's can one wish for an esoteric Airfix Scimitar or/and an P-51B/C? Wouldn't an P-51B/C (with funktional stick, antenna and landinggear) sell?

 

Cheers / André 

[Andre B]

6 hours ago, Wince said:

My lms has the profi pack at 12.99. A spit my 1/2 by airfix is 9.99. For 3 quid you get plenty more in the box so even the profi pack ones are banging value given the masks, brass, extra decals etc etc. 

Ordering the eduard Spitfire to Sweden I found that I would get three Airfix Mk. Ia for one eduard Spitfire Mk. IXe...

 

Cheers / André 

[Botan]

Video from Airfix. There is a trst shot/printed/prototype I guess of Spitfire about 9:53        Airfix part is from 7:19.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Botan

[Wince]

14 minutes ago, Andre B said:

Ordering the eduard Spitfire to Sweden I found that I would get three Airfix Mk. Ia for one eduard Spitfire Mk. IXe...

 

Cheers / André 

Not so great value then? I have the mark 8 in the stash and you do get a lot of kit. Heresy I know but I quite like the new revell mark 2 and hoping the mark 5 is rather nice. But for sheer modelling pleasure the airfix 1a is cracking. I have 5 in the stash with 2 built. 

[Andre B]

1 minute ago, Wince said:

Not so great value then? I have the mark 8 in the stash and you do get a lot of kit. Heresy I know but I quite like the new revell mark 2 and hoping the mark 5 is rather nice. But for sheer modelling pleasure the airfix 1a is cracking. I have 5 in the stash with 2 built. 

Hi,

Yes one can say so. Albeit the eduard IXe is an impressive kit with many spare parts it isn't comparable in price with the Airfix Mk. Ia for most of the time. And I can get the Airfix kit in the local shop almost when ever I want. I had to order the eduard kit and at least wait for more than a half week to get it...

[Andre B]

20 minutes ago, Botan said:

Video from Airfix. There is a trst shot/printed/prototype I guess of Spitfire about 9:53        Airfix part is from 7:19.

 

 

Mmm...

Almost shamefull to show the old and bad Bismark toghether with upcoming Beufort and Vc. What where they thinking?

[PLC1966]

21 hours ago, Vulcanicity said:

Bit rich, considering they tied down a huge proportion of the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht in the east with sheer determination and vast expenditure of blood...

That's true, but when you sup with the devil...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact   

 

As for the Spit, there were a lot of calls for this before the announcement, and while I did not really see the need for another variant, I guess I will have to have a couple on principle.  Bit of aftermarket decals for me on this one though..