Dave Swindell Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said: Absolutely, and Vampires. How did I forget the Vampires? I've built a couple! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: The Vokes filter unit is shown dark, so possibility of standard and/or Aboukir filters... The colour profile shown against the 'Starter set' kit does show a standard (non filter) undernose, so we can probably bank on that part being available in both kits. Cheers.. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said: As I said on the Beaufort thread, Airfix CAD renders show optional parts in a darker colour Given the colour scheme illustrations, there will be two types of spinner in the initial release The exhaust manifolds are shown dark, so there's the posibility of two types for these. The Vokes filter unit is shown dark, so possibility of standard and/or Aboukir filters and standard and/or large oil tank & undernose fairing The canon barrels appear to be darker, so possibly a 4 canon fit? Significantly the whole wing is shown light, so I'd not expect any alternate overwing bulges or a Vb from this tooling. Given the limited number of options, the small size of same, the inclusion of both types of spinner in this release and the series 2 price tag, I'd hope that all options are in the box, with only alternate decals in subsequent releases It's almost beyond credibility that they wouldn't include a standard carburetor intake, even if not for 'immediate use' so to speak. Hope they include Aboukier filter too. Looking far, far ahead, I would expect an entirely separate sprue for a 'b wing' which could, maybe, use the same undercarriage but with the reduced forward cant. Others may know better if this is feasable. I'd also expect any 'b' kit to include an externally armoured windscreen, which few if any 'c's had. It will be interesting to see if there's one on the clear sprue for this 'c' kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 54 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: The colour profile shown against the 'Stater set' kit does show a standard (non filter) undernose, so we can probably bank on that part being available in both kits. It does indeed, but it's not a "starter set" as we currently know them (base kit plus glue, brush and a few pots of acrylic paint), this is one of their new "Small Beginner" sets and we've yet to see what the relationship is between them and a standard kit. From the website one noticable difference between the two spitfires is the number of parts, 26 in the Small Beginners set (including what apears to be a two part stand) vs 73 in the standard kit. I'ts difficult to reconcile a difference of 46 parts between these two kits on the options I've been looking at, the Small beginner kit also appears to have optional undercarriage, so there must be a significant change in the parts supplied to reduce the count so much, I'm certainly intrigued to see what commonality there is between the two kits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Denford said: I would expect an entirely separate sprue for a 'b wing' I wouldn't. Since the Red Box era started, the options have been planned and designed (and most likely tooled) from the outset. There is one or occasionally two variations from the base tooling which appear fairly soon after the original release. Any other changes are in packaging (starter sets, doubles etc) and decals. As far as I'm aware, there have been no new sprues for kits that haven't been obviously planned with the original release. If we do get a Vb I'd say it would be an all new tool with it's own options, and it won't be for a couple of years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, Denford said: It's almost beyond credibility that they wouldn't include a standard carburetor intake, even if not for 'immediate use' so to speak. Hope they include Aboukier filter too. Looking far, far ahead, I would expect an entirely separate sprue for a 'b wing' which could, maybe, use the same undercarriage but with the reduced forward cant. Others may know better if this is feasable. I'd also expect any 'b' kit to include an externally armoured windscreen, which few if any 'c's had. It will be interesting to see if there's one on the clear sprue for this 'c' kit. I don't particularly expect Airfix to follow this Vc with a Vb for a while, in any case I hope that they will provide a B with the internally armoured windscreen ! In the end a large number of Vb had this and not too many kits offered this option in the past. The typical Spit Vb seems to always be a Castel Bromwich built aircraft with externally armoured windscreen and Rotol prop, while many interesting aircraft were Supermarine built with internal armour and DH props... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 The different windscreens between Spitfires up to the Mk.Vb and from the Mk.Vc onward would require different fuselages, if done properly (and there's no reason to suggest otherwise that I can see). Theoretically it could be done by a common fuselage with different deckings before the windscreen, but that seems less likely. So a Mk.VB would require a new fuselages and new wings, plus new undercarriages. For these, it is not just a matter of the changes in rake angle but the doors are also different, smooth on the earlier marks and bulged to fit partially around the leg on the later ones. This is because the wheel sits slightly lower in the universal wing to cope with the strengthened upper wing root, as opposed to the bulges on the earlier wing. The Beginner's Mk.Vc does appear to have the narrow cannon bulge on the wing. Whether that would justify buying one to get that part remains to be seen! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The different windscreens between Spitfires up to the Mk.Vb and from the Mk.Vc onward would require different fuselages, if done properly (and there's no reason to suggest otherwise that I can see). Theoretically it could be done by a common fuselage with different deckings before the windscreen, but that seems less likely. So a Mk.VB would require a new fuselages and new wings, plus new undercarriages. For these, it is not just a matter of the changes in rake angle but the doors are also different, smooth on the earlier marks and bulged to fit partially around the leg on the later ones. This is because the wheel sits slightly lower in the universal wing to cope with the strengthened upper wing root, as opposed to the bulges on the earlier wing. The Beginner's Mk.Vc does appear to have the narrow cannon bulge on the wing. Whether that would justify buying one to get that part remains to be seen! A detail that too many manufacturers have missed completely over the years. And judging from the CAD rendering on the Airfix webpage, they are missing it too... if anyone here is in touch with Airfix designers, please let them know ! In return they can send me a kit when they are ready to hit the market... 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Thanks for this: every time such a correspondence occurs, more and more differences between b & c appear! So as blabbermouth says (sorry to appear rude, but that's the name you use!) any Vb is still a long way off. Should be grateful to have a 'quality' Vc without now speculating on a Vb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: It does indeed, but it's not a "starter set" as we currently know them (base kit plus glue, brush and a few pots of acrylic paint), this is one of their new "Small Beginner" sets and we've yet to see what the relationship is between them and a standard kit. From the website one noticable difference between the two spitfires is the number of parts, 26 in the Small Beginners set (including what apears to be a two part stand) vs 73 in the standard kit. I'ts difficult to reconcile a difference of 46 parts between these two kits on the options I've been looking at, the Small beginner kit also appears to have optional undercarriage, so there must be a significant change in the parts supplied to reduce the count so much, I'm certainly intrigued to see what commonality there is between the two kits. Perhaps more akin to a Hobbyboss 'Easy Assembly' kit? Anything that encourages new people into our hobby can't be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Col. said: Perhaps more akin to a Hobbyboss 'Easy Assembly' kit? Anything that encourages new people into our hobby can't be a bad thing. I hope a lot better, I bought a couple for my daughter but reducing the wings and fuselage to two parts but still having to fiddle with small and delicate details seemed to me to get it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Denford said: Thanks for this: every time such a correspondence occurs, more and more differences between b & c appear! So as blabbermouth says (sorry to appear rude, but that's the name you use!) any Vb is still a long way off. Should be grateful to have a 'quality' Vc without now speculating on a Vb If for blabbermouth you mean me, that's not the name I chose, it is the qualification the forum software gave me when I hit the 10,000 post count.. I think I can change it to whatever I like, but I don't know if I'm really too "bovvered".. 😁 In any case yes, the differences between Vb and Vc are quite a few, even if some may be quite subtle. In reality the Mk.Vs in general saw quite a lot of evolution and even within the Vb subvariant it's possible to see some good variation in details over the production and into service. The Spitfire is to me a fascinating aircraft also because of this. We should indeed be happy to have a new good Vc, as this variant was widely used and has until now been sadly underrepresented. I may add that some of the most interesting colour and markings variations were seen on this subvariant, think "Malta blues", MTO and CBI colours, RAAF repaints and even the French, Italian and Yugoslav machines. I really hope that Airfix get this kit right ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Supermarine (or CB) built Mk.Vb with the internal armour did exist, at least in the EP serial range. and these could be made from a Mk.Vc fuselage without any problem. Fitting the external armour canopy to an earlier kit isn't a difficult modelling task, The other way round is slightly more awkward. Edited January 8, 2020 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Col. said: Perhaps more akin to a Hobbyboss 'Easy Assembly' kit? Anything that encourages new people into our hobby can't be a bad thing. That's what I was wondering, and I wholeheartedly agree. The images of this one apear to be a painted 3D print, and the breakdown looks very similar to the 1980's MkI. How this will relate to the finished product and what parts are common to the standard kit is intreaguing 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: The Beginner's Mk.Vc does appear to have the narrow cannon bulge on the wing. I think it's supposed to be the broad bulge, but it does look a little on the slim side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Is it too much to ask for a Seafire III as a follow up to this kit? PR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Meatbox8 said: Eeugh! Sharkmouths belong on 112 Sqaudron Tomahawks and Kittyhawks, not on Spitfires. I don't know, I quite like this one that Tony O'Toole built a couple of years back... Though personally I'm hoping this gets released in time for the MTO GB, I've got the DK decals for Spitfire Aces of the MTO which has got some nice options on it, but then again there's some Malta based aircraft that would be suitable for that GB too! Bravo Airfix! Good choice of an overlooked mark of Spitfire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikS Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 What's wrong with the shape of oil cooler? https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/new-for-2020/spitfire-mkvc.html Did it have any flaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, DominikS said: What's wrong with the shape of oil cooler? https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/new-for-2020/spitfire-mkvc.html Did it have any flaps? It's not a flap, I think the aft end was flared to help with the venturi effect and thus aid cooling. I'm wondering what the spigots on the underside are for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hugo Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Wez said: It's not a flap, I think the aft end was flared to help with the venturi effect and thus aid cooling. I'm wondering what the spigots on the underside are for? The spigots are most likely the hooks for the long range belly tank, and if so may be a good indication of a potential Malta release coming Edited January 8, 2020 by Charlie Hugo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Charlie Hugo said: The spigots are most likely the hooks for the long range belly tank Could be, I was expecting them to be closer to the centreline but I don't really know that much about the details of the slipper tank installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: I wouldn't. Since the Red Box era started, the options have been planned and designed (and most likely tooled) from the outset. There is one or occasionally two variations from the base tooling which appear fairly soon after the original release. Any other changes are in packaging (starter sets, doubles etc) and decals. As far as I'm aware, there have been no new sprues for kits that haven't been obviously planned with the original release. If we do get a Vb I'd say it would be an all new tool with it's own options, and it won't be for a couple of years at least. So with this in our mind this kit is not an clone of the I/II/Va kit (albeit with better panel lines) and no chanse to easy interchangeable parts with the I/II/Va kit? Cheers / André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Which parts would you wish to interchange? The tailplanes, perhaps? The wheels? Pretty well everything else is different. As discussed above, perhaps the combination of VB wings on the new fuselage would be useful, but pretty well nothing else. However, from what I've seen, I just don't know whether that'll work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Which parts would you wish to interchange? The tailplanes, perhaps? The wheels? Pretty well everything else is different. As discussed above, perhaps the combination of VB wings on the new fuselage would be useful, but pretty well nothing else. However, from what I've seen, I just don't know whether that'll work or not. First in my mind was an better Spitfire Mk. I/II/V fuselage with not so "trenchlike panellines" with the posibillity to use both the older a and new c wing... Cheers / André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 The windscreen difference makes this not a straightforward swop. The interface with the fuselage is curved on the earlier variants whereas it is straight and longer on the later. as discussed above, this makes it a small modelling fix to put the later one on an early fuselage but more fiddly to do the reverse., unless both kits are planned that way at the start. There's no sign of this on the earlier kit; perhaps something cunning has been done to the new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikS Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Honestly I don't think Airfix will release Spitfire Mk.Vb in forseable future...It's against their policy. I only hope they've improved their QC and there won't be any issues like with Buccaneer. Only this strange oil cooler shape...I can't recollect any photos with such coolers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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