Spitfire Nose/Cowl Camouflage Paint

[wellsprop]

Hi all,

 

I have a question regarding the paint around the lower cowl of the nose on the Spitfire. I have always thought the green/grey camo should stop where the side cowl joins the lower cowl, like this.

 

 

However, I realise this isn't the case, many Spitfires had the camo painted onto the lower panels, like these;

 

 

 

 

 

In particular, I noticed it on this photo of XIV's, I intend to make MV264 EB-Q as shown.

I had never appreciated this difference (aside from some MTO Spitfires), does anyone know the reason for this difference?

 

Cheers

Ben

Edited January 5, 2020 by wellsprop

[Work In Progress]

Disregarding unit-applied paint and sticking to variations among production paint jobs, there's no great reason for it that I'm aware of in these particular cases, it's just the way things were. There always have been variations in paint and markings from nominal designs and standards, varying interpretations of the same or similar instructions,  and probably always will be. Different factories, different works foremen, gradual evolutions in working process to squeeze a little more productivity out of the system.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Work In Progress

[72modeler]

Ben,

I think I recall something that the late. great Edgar Brooks posted on the subject; IIRC the actual demarcation as specified in the paint diagrams was slightly curved and below the upper edge of the lower cowling section, as seen in some of the posted photos, but at some point the lower cowling panel line was used for the demarcation, most likely because those panels could be painted during production, thus eliminating masking and saving some man hours, or perhaps during repair/repaint when panels and subassemblies were removed and not necessarily re-installed on the same aircraft they came off of, the lower cowl panels were painted off of the airplane, so the undersurface demarcation would be the edge of the panel. As the sage and wise Troy Smith is fond of saying- find a photo of the aircraft you want to model and go with that! To be perfectly honest, I never really noticed this anomaly until becoming a member of BM- now I see it all the time!

Mike

[Graham Boak]

The problem with Edgar's logic is shown in the above photos: the demarcation on the panel is shown on an early aircraft and the lower demarcation on later ones.  Which suggests that, if anything, the reverse happened.  I agree that you need to look at your subject.  For example, aircraft with a tropical filter tend to have the demarcation on the panel line.  Except those with a very low line.

[Dave Swindell]

It usually depends largly on where the airframe was painted as to the style it is finished in.

There's a good article in Air Enthusiast 71? on the early MkIX Spitfires which a clear style of upper surface camouflage on the nose can be detected between Eastleigh built, Castle Bromwich built and RR Hucknall converted airframes.

Another example is the Mosquitos built by Percival, they're easily distinguished by the camouflage pattern on the engine nacelles

I't wasn't just Manufacturers, MU's could have their own style as well, eg the firewall scheme Mustangs in Italy

Another trait would be size, position and "font" of the aircraft serial which could also vary between location. This was common from WWI through to the standardisation of lettering after WWII

Each location was working from the same set of rules, but the interpretation and application could vary. Output from a particular location would vary within the accepted tolerance of that locations interpretation (ie every aircraft produced wasn't necessarily identical, but the style of application would be recognisable)

[303sqn]

Air Enthusiast 95 - Spitfire Five to Nine.

[wellsprop]

Thanks for the replies all, I had suspected the answer would be "there were just some differences in interpretation".

 

It just caught me a little off guard as I've made at least 50 Spitfires and only ever painted the demarcation along the panel line - it know appears that many of the (particularly late war 2TAF) Spitfires had the demarcation onto the lower panel.

 

On another note, is anyone aware of any formal instruction to 2TAF units to paint their gun barrels white? As seen in the photo on my first post.

 

Cheers

[NorthBayKid]

Lots of Battle of Britain period Spitfire Mk.Is had a curved demarcation.  The use of the panel line as the demarcation seems to have (at that point) been more of an MU or unit level thing when the order for Sky bellies came down in June 1940.  The factories were still doing the curved line, but it wasn't consistent.  

The only sure-fire way to know which variety a given aeroplane had is to look at a photo of it.  

[Peter Roberts]

Good point re: the change to Sky lower surfaces. Makes sense - quicker and easier to remove the lower cowl panels, spray and reattach.

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

Good point re: the change to Sky lower surfaces. Makes sense - quicker and easier to remove the lower cowl panels, spray and reattach.

Except it's two removable panels and a fixed tank in the middle...

[melvyn hiscock]

5 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Except it's two removable panels and a fixed tank in the middle...

Or just remove the engine panel and use a big mask to stop overspray on the engine. Still less labour intensive