Paul Bradley Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) What happened to the Airfix 2020 thread with the AMW page? I linked to it yesterday but now it says it doesn't exist. I can't find it anywhere - am I blind? Was it deleted???? I know the chat thread was shut down, but that was because there was a new, separate thread in Rumourmonger, which I now cannot find. Edited January 4, 2020 by Paul Bradley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junco Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Agree are we wasting our time putting up a bit of news about Airfix and it disappears almost straight away. Especially as the info I referred to was from Scalemates..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treker_ed Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Mods may have removed due to copyright infringement. Scanning the pages of a magazine or book without the owners explicitl consent is copyright theft. Rather than get hit with a takedown notice, or other legal notice, the mods may have taken pre-emptive action. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I thought this was the Rumourmonger forum, and not subject to petty embargo. Otherwise there's no point. You heard it here last Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) I’m led to believe there was a friendly “take-down” request. The image posted was official info provided to a magazine and it seems leaked early. I’d say that renders it official news and not a rumour, so technically doesn’t belong here anyway. I’d rather the mods remove the content and protect my favourite modelling forum, rather than the potential alternative. I do believe you heard it here first... Edited January 4, 2020 by SimonT 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I suspect the problem is that someone at Airfix has asked the mods politely not to keep posting up the announcements due on Monday, and any discussion after that will remain. It would explain the thread deletions. (perhaps they will reappear after the official date?) The 'leak' is a copy of Airfix Model World that was either released too soon, or someone managed to get a image of the announcements page, and they are rightly somewhat miffed, as a similar thing happened with the Vulcan. Perhaps @Mike or another mod could clarify the matter though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanC Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Owner's copyright begins with creation, not publication. So posting a page from a literary work prior to publication and without the owner's consent is an infringement of copyright. The mods have no option but to take it down. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) The underlying related facts are not copyrightable material, though, and threads which contain no copyright material are also disappearing with no explanation. Someone a couple of hours just posted the news of one of the new tools as simple text saying he gathers Airfix is about to launch an "X", no images, no, copyright material at all, and that thread was deleted too. (I'm not naming "X" here to avoid this thread too being deleted as it seems that all reference to specific new Airfix material is now being taken down off the forum) Edited January 4, 2020 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Strict enforcement of copyright rules would remove a huge proportion of the photographs and information that appears on the internet. And for that matter, chunks of the works that are published - see the thread on RAAF Beaufighters. Not that I endorse such. However, whilst feeling for Airfix's annoyance at being pre-empted, the information is now out and taking this thread down two days before publication in AMW does appear rather petty and pointless. Edited January 4, 2020 by Graham Boak 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) They're all up on a well-known site cataloguing all known kit release anyway. No, I'm not going to link. Edited to reflect Graham's sagacity Edited January 4, 2020 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I was just adding a similar comment about another site, which I wasn't even going to name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Perhaps, on reflection, the mods should have jumped on it when it first appeared rather than wait for the inevitable. If Airfix was that unhappy about the leak a request to remove the info was bound to appear. The Vulcan announcement was accidental, though I still have my doubts as to whether it was actually unintended. This was a deliberate leak, perhaps by somebody at Key Publishing, which produces AMW, and understandably Airfix was spitting mad. Perhaps both us forum members -myself included- and those who run it should not have allowed our excitement to overcome our sense. Others will undoubtedly disagree, but I am very glad that the relevant threads have been removed and hopefully goodwill will remain between Britmodeller and Airfix. It would not say much for the forum's reputation had Mike told Hornby where to stick it when asked. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Actually, I rather think it would (and reference to goodwill being lost or gained are - as yet - purely hypothetical, unless you know better?). Rights of press freedom, and all that? But there is a proverb about not shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Does rather raise the question of what the whole Rumourmonger forum is intended for though. In the last week we've been told repeatedly that we are not supposed to use it for expressions of what we'd like manufacturers to produce, nor for unsourced speculation. The implication of the last couple of days is that we're also not supposed to use it for sourced and factual information about what manufacturers are planning to announce. Mike's gaff, Mike's rules, but we need clarity on what those rules are, in order to have any ability to work within them. If Rumourmonger's new function is now intended purely to record official manufacturer announcements as and when they are made, then that's fine, but it needs a new name and a new description to make that clear, as the current name and description - What kits have you heard about from the manufacturers, your mum's cousin vinny, or in a dream you had the other night? Post your thoughts, requests for confirmation, or just baseless speculation here... - now appears no longer applicable. Edited January 4, 2020 by Work In Progress 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) It's a fine line between rumour and unofficial announcement; although this was clearly an official announcement leaked before its intended publication date. Perhaps we need some guidelines here as what is permissible and what is "out of bounds". Clearly in this case reproducing a printed page from a magazine yet to be published is one thing, but how different is it to "I've got a friend, who knows someone, who works for a printer's distribution company, who's seen a copy of the next edition of AMW... here is a list he made."? I guess its a question of confidentiality of the information; and for readers, the credibility of the source. We used to get leaks ("rumours") like this all the time a few years ago with people who had "sources" in the know who claimed to know what was in development. This seemed to disipate as Airfix made things much more transparent with their Workbench blog, advent calenders or early announcements - offering us a single version of the truth. Having a "big announcement date" seems to me to have refuelled it again. Maybe Airfix need also to rethink their announcement strategy - if they really want to avoid such leaks (rather than encourage speculation - which I get a feeling they quite like). Just my thoughts. Rich Edited January 4, 2020 by RichG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I've noticed these kinds of strict reactions mostly happen on Airfix threads. But what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Actually, I rather think it would (and reference to goodwill being lost or gained are - as yet - purely hypothetical, unless you know better?). Rights of press freedom, and all that? But there is a proverb about not shutting the door after the horse has bolted. I hear what you are saying, and I was not aware BM was part of the press, but look at it this way. Had Airfix been releasing a series of kits based on Star Wars next year, Mike could have been hit with legal action requiring him to remove the images rather than a friendly request which he could have ignored- particularly as the House of Mouse would have been involved and they protect their interests with the ruthlessness of a pit of snakes. Whoever did leak it would probably be in big trouble as they would have broken a non-disclosure agreement, and Britmodeller could have suffered as a result of association. I do agree, however, about what the Rumourmonger section is for. The warnings and eventual locking of the original Airfix 2020 thread before its removal to the chat section seemed over the top, particularly as the actual info, seemingly obtained in an unusual fashion, was then posted with a lack of red flags flying. Edited January 4, 2020 by Truro Model Builder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Well, I'm happy with the 1/72 Vulcan which we've known about since November. And the slightly overdue repop of the 1/48 Sea Vixen, which I preordered nine months ago. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickydicky210 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Think we need an overhaul of this section perhaps we should have forthcoming kits I.e officially announced plus wish lists as a separate section and a gossip or rumour section that way rumours could be promoted to the official thread when confirmed 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 This is all just part of a cunning plan to conceal Monday's real announcement - the Yak-9 VK-105 series in all three of Airfix's favoured scales - 1/72, 1/48, and a dazzling 1/24!!! I just know it... John 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, John Thompson said: This is all just part of a cunning plan to conceal Monday's real announcement - the Yak-9 VK-105 series in all three of Airfix's favoured scales - 1/72, 1/48, and a dazzling 1/24!!! I just know it... John I'd have some of what you're having, but I think you've had all of it. 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acinonyx Jubatus Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said: I hear what you are saying, and I was not aware BM was part of the press, but look at it this way. Had Airfix been releasing a series of kits based on Star Wars next year, Mike could have been hit with legal action requiring him to remove the images rather than a friendly request which he could have ignored- particularly as the House of Mouse would have been involved and they protect their interests with the ruthlessness of a pit of snakes. Whoever did leak it would probably be in big trouble as they would have broken a non-disclosure agreement, and Britmodeller could have suffered as a result of association. I do agree, however, about what the Rumourmonger section is for. The warnings and eventual locking of the original Airfix 2020 thread before its removal to the chat section seemed over the top, particularly as the actual info, seemingly obtained in an unusual fashion, was then posted with a lack of red flags flying. Exactly this, I would think Airfix management and/or legal team may well have spoken to, not only key publishing but Britmodeller also, and possibly any other internet site publishing this years release list without Airfix's consent I would be surprised if the poster who posted the image from AMW was still allowed on this site to be honest, I cant imagine Britmodeller is very popular with Airfix at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfparker Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Feel sorry for Airfix and hope that they take up their disappointment over the leak via their lawyers with the printers. Well done mods too - thats what you are here for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon V Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, tony.t said: Well, I'm happy with the 1/72 Vulcan which we've known about since November. And the slightly overdue repop of the 1/48 Sea Vixen, which I preordered nine months ago. Tony Yup. Here we ere taking about the 2020 lineup and they've yet to release all of the 2019 lineup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 59 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said: I'd have some of what you're having, but I think you've had all of it. Well, I hadn't mentioned the Yak-9 in a while, so I mentioned it, and I think I got away with it... John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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