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brian davey

Pocher 1/8 Rolls Royce Sedanca - New Build & Member

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😜 Well, I got it to work!

Pictures one and three are just before I took the engine apart.

Picture two, the cables for the generator.

Titanic by Academy.

Wires on the generator, I know they are located incorrectly, but at the moment I will leave well enough alone.

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Well I see you've mastered photos-excellent.

Beautiful Titanic and case - a favorite of mine.

Now make regular updates to WIP. There's already plenty of reference here.

C

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Some kind of maple for the interior of the Roller.

And, the bumpers I purchased on EBay from Germany. 

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Recent update, with the extra oil line, just about everything is removable pending comments.

My sad little engine stand, however, it works, be kind!

42-E822-AE-88-C7-4093-A402-64-A88252-B0-

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Go into my thread above and find the engine pix taken outdoors on the wooden stand.

You have the following errors in yours. Depending on how accurate you wish to be, here are the errors:

The rag joints on the magneto drive are wrong - they should be at each end of the shaft.

The oil feed line on the block must be fed by additional line (at the front) which traverses the front of the block and runs on carburetor side, starting at the oil pump. Haddock's plans will show you this too.

The pipe you added to the oil pan must have a fitting on it where it screws into the pan. I think it was either a 2mm nut or 0-80 nut-depending on the size of your pipe.

Put more bracing on that wood stand or it will collapse as the engine gets heavier.

C

 

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Codger,

I have looked at JRH: Super Detailing of the RR, on pages 17, 18, and 19. I can not see where the extra fuel line wraps around to the carburetor side.

- In regards to the line that I added, I will plan to do as you suggest be having it wrap around.

- I’ll add the nuts to the lines on the oil pan.

And beef up my sad stand!

As always, thank you.

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Mr C,

 

1) Should I install the engine oil lines first before I place the extra oil line?

 

2) I have been using 2mm aluminum tubes, and 1mm solder for the lines, and 1mm hex nuts that are cut off. Am I on the right track, I would prefer to do this assembly once, for removing glued on lines makes a mess of the paint. Just about everything in my pictures can be removed, except the oil line.

 

I sent an email to David Cox enquiring about how they lowered the blue and cream RR in their Building the Sedanca digital book.

I am troubled by how complicated that whole procedure of lowering the body is, luckily I have a spare set of body parts.

 

Your resurrection of the RR build is very inspiring, but very daunting. I have been carefully reading and note taking of your work.


I apologize for taking so long in sorting out the picture situation. In reality it is 4 simple steps, I spent two weeks attempting to make it happen.

B

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12 hours ago, brian davey said:

1) Should I install the engine oil lines first before I place the extra oil line?

2) I have been using 2mm aluminum tubes, and 1mm solder for the lines, and 1mm hex nuts that are cut off. Am I on the right track, I would prefer to do this assembly once, for removing glued on lines makes a mess of the paint. Just about everything in my pictures can be removed, except the oil line.

Your resurrection of the RR build is very inspiring, but very daunting. I have been carefully reading and note taking of your work.

Brian-

1.Not sure where you're referring to here. An understanding of 1:1 automotive practice is beneficial to any such plumbing. But see my comments below before contemplating this.

2. These dimensions may be in my thread but the over-riding factor should be getting your work to look (by eye) like your references. Search 'Phantom II engines' and study available images for accuracy. Then replicate it using solder, tubing and hardware - BUT-

Again I must say that I would prefer that you were concerned at this stage, with solid construction techniques rather than the window dressing of details.

So I'm sure it will benefit you to build the wheels (I gave very detailed instructions) and chassis (same) to get 'feet wet'' with big car construction. Although your Titanic is also big, the car requires solid and square construction techniques because it supports much weight with somewhat delicate or poorly leveraged parts.

Most beneficial to you early on, in my view, would be a thorough understanding of multiple adhesives (CA, epoxy, contact and plastic cements), and attachment methods of bolting (and sizing), heat-sinking and screw attachment. These are the largest methods of component attachment. Drilling and tapping are close behind. And extreme concern for flush, square attaching surfaces throughout.

Asking David to explain lowering the body could not be answered in one email. I have covered that in excruciating detail in my thread (over several pages) and the method was taught to me by David. Bear in mind that I have six+ decades of model-building background so the concepts were easily grasped by me. David can show and tell each of us exactly how he did something but almost none of us can do it as he does.

I regret that it may be overwhelming in so large a chunk but I have no other way to impart the info I've learned. The key is to start slowly and get the basics right. A book of my thread would be over 450 pages (with 2 photos per page) and cost a fortune just to have printed as it's presented here - for free.

Just as your classical music mastery requires extreme discipline, advanced modeling does too although to a lesser extent. Trust me- upholstering, glass installation, chrome plating and wood joinery are the things that catch the eye but learning them is harsh discipline.

So I feel it most helpful for you to put the engine away for now and do the less complex foundations to perfection.

I said often in my thread that the building of layers of detail accumulates as the basics get established.

Building your first Pocher would be a wonderful accomplishment to 99% of the forum-you've saved it from oblivion. But building an EXTREME Pocher first time out is an exercise in frustration. A lovely stock model (tough enough) can be built without lowering, cutting, engine plumbing or otherwise altering a stock kit. For your first one I say recognize your limitations and that will better prepare you for your second or third.

C

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My two cents:

 

1.  Build the wheels first.  Build them carefully and perfectly.  Paul Koo and Codger show you how.  This process is valuable for developing Pocher skills and Pocher specific quality control.

 

2.  Build the chassis straight, true, and level with proper tools and jigs.

 

3.  Assemble the basic engine and transmission without added detail.  Install the complete drive train in the chassis.  Make everything you install easily removable because this will be a long, complicated, iterative process.

 

4.  Place the stock body parts, main body, cowl, hood, floor, and radiator on the chassis.  Position the body properly relative to the rear wheels.

 

5.  Look at the model.  Look at the prototypes.  Look carefully at the adjustments suggested by Paul Koo and the body and fender modifications made by Codger and John Haddock.

 

Look again at prototypes.  Measure proportions and dimensions.

 

Decide what, if anything, you want to modify from stock Pocher.

 

6. Pay special attention to how Codger increased the torsional rigidity and the structural integrity of the Rolls.

 

7.  Make your own plan.  Be prepared to improvise and to modify your goals as you progress.  This is both the challenge and the fun.

 

For me, the most valuable aspect of Codger’s thread was how he describes the problems he encountered and how, along the way, he set new goals, developed new plans, and created innovative solutions.  I think that’s what you want to emulate.

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Thank you for your response Endeavor,


All of your points are very helpful, and I will give them all very serious consideration.

I have been fretting over all those extra added details and of course how the body will fit on the chassis.

This Sedanca is my first Pocher, and I am expecting a fantastic result. With that in mind, perhaps I should do an OOB build as suggested by Codger for my first go.

Additional details can be added and removed depending on my success.

I am not sure how to manufacture JRH super detailing additions anyway.

 

Again thank you!

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439-E75-C1-FC1-B-441-C-9529-120-CCE108-A

Well I gave my dodgy engine stand a much needed update. Added some suggested supports and paint. Now it looks like a 10 year old made it, but, it works!

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Codger,

Thank you for your insightful comments, and for taking the time to do so, it is appreciated.

I have been wondering if scaling back on my adventurous desires might be a good thing. I have spent considerable time pondering all the information that Koo, You, Wayne, David Cox have shared.

I have spent hour upon hour reading and studying to the detriment of my time building the Sedanca.

So I will build this model OOB, with additions that I can accomplish.

 

I hope that by building a simpler Rolls you will offer advice, because, I will need it!

 

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1 hour ago, brian davey said:

Codger,

Thank you for your insightful comments, and for taking the time to do so, it is appreciated.

I have been wondering if scaling back on my adventurous desires might be a good thing. I have spent considerable time pondering all the information that Koo, You, Wayne, David Cox have shared.

I have spent hour upon hour reading and studying to the detriment of my time building the Sedanca.

So I will build this model OOB, with additions that I can accomplish.

 

I hope that by building a simpler Rolls you will offer advice, because, I will need it!

 

Will help with anything you need.

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Sir Codger,

I would like to ask you a question.

What is the best way to cut various widths of metal in the sheet form.

I have several miter boxes for tubes and rods, but not sure on sheets.

 

My only experience with metal are the teeny tiny PE parts I used on the Titanic and Scharnhorst, and that was a tough go to be sure.

 

Thanks as always,

 

Oh yes, what device do you use to measure lengths of metal (rod and such).

I asked the same question of Wayne, so I know what devices I need to purchase.

 

I am very much surprised by the amount of interest my thread has received, I only regret that there is very little to see.

 

Much more to come.....

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I use digital verniers for most of my measuring Brian.

They're very handy for measuring wire gauge too.

i have sort of hit a stop sign with Rolls as we are in the midst of listing our house on the market.

i sneak off once and awhile and do some quick tinkering. 

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13 minutes ago, brian davey said:

What is the best way to cut various widths of metal in the sheet form.

I have several miter boxes for tubes and rods, but not sure on sheets.

My only experience with metal are the teeny tiny PE parts I used on the Titanic and Scharnhorst, and that was a tough go to be sure.

Oh yes, what device do you use to measure lengths of metal (rod and such).

For measuring, get any of these you prefer, as Wayne and Detail recommend:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=digital+caliper&crid=2R1BQETZILJ42&sprefix=DIGITAL+%2Caps%2C179&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_8_8

Exactly what sheets of metal need you cut? Brass up to .010 can be cut with scissors or shears; bandsaw for thicker. An OOB kit assembly requires no metal sheet.

The brass square channel for the windows I cut was cut on the bandsaw and trued on a disc sander. Doubt you're making window frames. Cutting round tubes is best done with a tubing cutter; pick from these from 1/8" up. Below 1/8, cut by rolling the tube under a new #11 Exacto blade. Forget the miter box:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=small+tubing+cutter&crid=28QM5OOF19RAC&sprefix=small+tub%2Caps%2C185&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_9

You experience with the boat PE is good- for your ability to handle 1mm and up fasteners.

And please - although HM the Queen is wild about my Rolls, she has not bestowed knighthood on me.

So no more 'Sir' - OK? Even she calls me 'Codger'.

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Digital Caliper - make sure that you get one with an auto-off function. The ones with blue, red, yellow and green buttons don't, and even if you remember to turn them off they EAT batteries.

 

I would guess that the caliper and a scriber are my most used tools.

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35 minutes ago, Jo NZ said:

Digital Caliper - make sure that you get one with an auto-off function. The ones with blue, red, yellow and green buttons don't, and even if you remember to turn them off they EAT batteries.

 

I would guess that the caliper and a scriber are my most used tools.

Always excellent advice from Jo. I have an old but expensive Starrett dial caliper. I'm not in the digital age yet....

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I'm with Codger on the choice of calipers. Treat yourself to a decent dial caliper and it will last forever, no on/off switching or batteries to worry about.

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Thank you Tankerman, I appreciate your advice and will be looking at my options.

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Brian,

A while ago you asked me what tools etc that you should buy. For me, that's a hard hard question to answer so let me just show you what I have in a toolbox and on my workbench and you can pick and choose from there. Also, understand that, these tools were accumulated over a lot of years. I hope it helps.

 

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