Nils Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Vickers Wellington HD-E of RAAF 466sqn (piloted by the New Zealander Morton). The last plane to bomb Hamburg in the horrible 'Operation Gomorrah'. Thousands of planes bombing the city night and day during the last week of July, 1943. Over 45000 lives were swallowed by firestorms racing through the city, more than 800degrees hot, consuming everything in it's way 24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 You certainly captured something of the terrifying heat in this one, Nils. Brave to show the 'total war' aspect rather than easier options of pleasant skyscapes or green fields. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancunian airman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I'm not sure if thats a model or CGI imposed . . . which ever it is its quite a dramatic portrait which I really like 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 War is Hell and you've captured it perfectly. Very nice work indeed (of a terrible experience). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Thank you gentlemen. Researching the full story behind ‘Operation Gomorrah’ before I did this piece, was really a heart ripping story to read. Really shocking material. Mancunian airman, this work is a mix of both. The plane and bombs are CG whilst the background is digitally painted and everything baked together in Photoshop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Excellent art! Ah yes, good old 'Bomber' Harris and his American counterpart, Curtis LeMay. Just fry all the civilians and let God sort them out. Regards, Jason 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 1:11 PM, Nils said: Over 45000 lives were swallowed by firestorms racing through the city, more than 800degrees hot, consuming everything in it's way Almost as hot as the crematorium at Neuengamme concentration camp, where over 42,000 were killed. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Procopius said: Almost as hot as the crematorium at Neuengamme concentration camp, where over 42,000 were killed. Yes, but the Allies were supposed to be the good guys. Deliberately creating firestorms with the sole purpose of killing civilians is not very good, in my eyes at least. However, I believe we're starting to tread on dangerous ground here... Best Regards, Jason Edited February 28, 2020 by Learstang Additional comments added. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Learstang said: Yes, but the Allies were supposed to be the good guys. Deliberately creating firestorms with the sole purpose of killing civilians is not very good, in my eyes at least. It's a bit facile to suggest that the "sole purpose" was to kill civilians. Hamburg was a major port city and the home of Blohm und Voss, as well as many lesser lights of the Nazi military-industrial complex (including the important testing facilities of the Hamburg Experimental Shipbuilding Institution). The purpose was to help win the war, which it materially did: among other things, u-boat construction was delayed at a critical point in the Battle of the Atlantic, and VDM's propeller factory, the largest in Germany, was totally destroyed and had to be dispersed into three smaller factories elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, there's a distinct difference between killing civilians protected by radar, night fighters, and guns, engaged in war work during a total war, and murdering the enslaved peoples of countries which have no power to resist. Once the Germans surrendered, the Allies stopped killing them. They didn't extend the same courtesy to the countries they invaded. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desert falcon Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 As once said by British Prime Minister Chamberlain, in war there are no winners, only losers. A loss of a life on either side, is also a loss of somebodies son/daughter, brother/sister or father/mother. I think your rendering shows this very well Nils. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Procopius said: As far as I'm concerned, there's a distinct difference between killing civilians protected by radar, night fighters, and guns, engaged in war work during a total war, and murdering the enslaved peoples of countries which have no power to resist. Not to the civilians that burned to death on the sidewalks of Hamburg there bloody well wasn't any difference. Dead is dead. And I suppose the firestorm was surgically precise in killing only those civilians that were involved in the war effort. Nobody hates the Nazis and what they stood for more than I do, and I can read without any pity about Soviet atrocities towards German civilians, because it was scant payment for what the Nazis had already done to the Soviet Union and its peoples, but Hamburg, Dresden, and the fire-bombing of Tokyo were borderline war atrocities. Best Regards, Jason Edited February 28, 2020 by Learstang 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Learstang said: Not to the civilians that burned to death on the sidewalks of Hamburg there bloody well wasn't any difference. Dead is dead. And I suppose the firestorm was surgically precise in killing only those civilians that were involved in the war effort. Nobody hates the Nazis and what they stood for more than I do, and I can read without any pity about Soviet atrocities towards German civilians, because it was scant payment for what the Nazis had already done to the Soviet Union and its peoples, but Hamburg, Dresden, and the fire-bombing of Tokyo were borderline war atrocities. Best Regards, Jason I am glad that I live in the land of free speech so can say that I totally disagree with you. Let’s not forget the 55000 volunteers of Bomber Command who died to allow that free speech. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I am also glad as it allows me to say that your total disagreement changes my beliefs not one whit. Best Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I have read about both side of this topic agree and disagree with both sides. I suggest we stop all the for and against comments about the history and keep this to comments on Nils' artwork, lest the whole topic gets locked down. Chris 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I 24 minutes ago, dogsbody said: I have read about both side of this topic agree and disagree with both sides. I suggest we stop all the for and against comments about the history and keep this to comments on Nils' artwork, lest the whole topic gets locked down. Chris Wise words Chris its not an easy topic and is capable of raising passions which like politics, football and religion don’t mix well lets stick to the art 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) Yes I agree, there will always be many wievs on this. Luckily most of us (well all, really) have never needed to experience that war. It’s now soon 80 years ago, but I realize there are still sore feelings. I’m sorry if some feels it’s inproper to display. I wasn’t meant to step on anyones toes or certainly not taking any side. For me it was ‘just another work’ inspired by historic facts.. Edited February 28, 2020 by Nils 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Nils said: Yes I agree, there will always be many wievs on this. Luckily most of us (well all, really) have never needed to experience that war. It’s now soon 80 years ago, but I realize there are still sore feelings. I’m sorry if some feels it’s inproper to display. I wasn’t meant to step on anyones toes or certainly not taking any side. For me it was ‘just another work’ inspired by historic facts.. Art has always been a way to encourage discussion and even argument. However appreciating a piece for it's merit is timeless. I hope you share more in future. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 6:20 AM, Learstang said: Excellent art! Ah yes, good old 'Bomber' Harris and his American counterpart, Curtis LeMay. Just fry all the civilians and let God sort them out. Regards, Jason Hmm this is true but at the time in was the UK only significant method of taking the war to the enemy so it's kinda a small porthole bigger picture scenario...Bomber Harris I feel has been victimised somewhat ...he was doing his job leading bomber command in an Offensive operation ...The consequences are not nice but then I dont suppose that was a major consideration at the time....Britain still has threat of invasion and food shortages to contend with...plus people being killed also. Dont get me on the very late bomber command medal.....and btw I'm an ex matelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I was thinking that I might stay away from this. But having read and understood ( I think! ) the comments allowed to us by the sacrifices of too many professionals and innocents throughout the SECOND world war in twenty years having managed a bloody rehearsal in the FIRST. I am a bit of a painter myself and appreciate Nils painting for what it is. Best regards to all. Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 Thanks to all for your feedbacks.. and I must say it’s truly has been a useful learning for me. As I said when doing the piece, I had no thought for who was doing what in the conflict and certainly never meaning to take any side. A bit naive I guess, looking back but that’s how I saw it. Just feeling sad for all innocent civillian lives beeing sacrificed on the altar of war all over the world. So if anyone felt bad about this image it was never my intention to step on your feelings.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Being late to the post I would like to give my thoughts. When I first saw the picture I was drawn into the scene, the background showing the true horrors of total war, the intensity of the heat and the sheer horror of being caught up in the maelstrom below. In the foreground is the Bomber Command Wellington , dutifully drawn and accurate lit up by the inferno below and crewed by young men doing their duty to save all they know and love. As a piece of art it is thought provoking, fierce in it's intensity, accurate and forces some soul searching on all fronts. However, what it cannot tell us is what was going through the minds of the young airmen risking all on more than just this one mission. Superb work Nils. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Thank you for your kind words. I’m glad you liked it and shed your thoughts around it. My intentions was also as said above, never to ‘take a side’ of the battle. It’s just a story I’ve heard so much about and I’ve always found it a shocking story that’s been burning in the back of my head for years. On the other hand, that’s a danger with depicting war. There are always two sides to a battle, and it’s so easy to hurt one or the other side, unintentionally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Not wanting to take anything away from the fabulous artistic talent on show here, however No.466 (RAAF) Squadron operated Mk.X Wellingtons during 1943, whereas this painting would appear to show a Mk.1c. Anyway, as I said, it’s a wonderful depiction of an awful moment in history and something that we all hope to never witness again. Cheers.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Thank you Rabbit leader, that’s the greatness with this place, all the tips and help you get along the way.. and yes you’re right, it is s Mk1c. Your comment is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Leek Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 My mother lived through the firestorm in Hamburg. And until the day she died, she could still identify and recognise the sound of a Lancaster bomber. On one occasion, when she was living in south-east London, there was a Battle of Britain flypast over Buckingham Palace. After the flypast the Lancaster turned to the south east (probably to avoid Heathrow). In so doing, it approached my mother’s flat, and at low level too. She heard it before anyone else did. For a moment, she went as white as the proverbial sheet. My mother’s ashes are buried a few metres away from the mass grave of those who lost their lives in the firestorm. And this mass grave holds in excess of 30,000 bodies, none of whom could be identified. As most on here probably know, the firestorm was caused by the RAF missing their primary target during their first run. Instead of hitting the docks and the all important shipyards (where U-boats were being built), they hit a very poor residential area, comprising primarily ancient and cramped wooden tenements. Once the phosphorus took hold, there was little hope of surviving such an inferno… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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