72modeler Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Just now stumbled upon this website that details the construction and re-engineering of the new-build Fw-190A-8's by Goshawk. Some neat engineering involved- especially the new oil coolers and air intake trunking. Looks like the Ash-82T engines have the same magnetos as fitted to USN F4U/F7F/F8F R-2800's Mike http://warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/fw-190-flight-gosshawk-unlimited.html 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturmovik Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Very interesting article, thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 hours ago, 72modeler said: Just now stumbled upon this website that details the construction and re-engineering of the new-build Fw-190A-8's by Goshawk. Some neat engineering involved- especially the new oil coolers and air intake trunking. Looks like the Ash-82T engines have the same magnetos as fitted to USN F4U/F7F/F8F R-2800's Mike http://warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/fw-190-flight-gosshawk-unlimited.html Some are re-engined with P&W’s and Allisons from what i understand. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Focke-Wulf_Fw_190s Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Some are re-engined with P&W’s and Allisons from what i understand. Dennis, I think some of the flying Fw-190A's might have R-2000 or R-1830 radials; for the Allison, you might be thinking of the new-build Fw-190D-9's as they are being fitted with Allison V-1710's, IIRC; there is one D-9 being restored with an original Jumo engine! Mike 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) I'd missed that article, it has some fantastic photos and info! The annular oil cooler is a very clever idea - I recently built a 1;72 model with the new-tool Airfix kit of the Hangar10 example D-FWAA which has them mounted in the wing roots and has the outlets where the ammunition blisters would be: Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr So far none of the three Flug Werk Doras have flown, but there is video online of Jerry Yagen's running from some time ago - he's since had a Jumo restored by Mike Nixon and co to replace the Allison which is very exciting. As the survivors listing on Wikipedia states there are a couple of US examples with R-2800s, but I believe most Flug Werk A-8/Ns have ASh-82s. The only R-1830-powered 190 is, I believe, the Jurca MJ-80 1:1 replica D-FWUB built by Ulrich Bronner(sp?) in Germany. It's for sale again if anyone's in the market... Edited January 3, 2020 by k5054nz 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 An R-1830 is I'm sure a good choice for the Jurca, which is vastly lighter than the original FW, but wouldn't really be enough for a faithful reproduction of the actual FW airframe The P&W R-2800 is a wonderful engine, probably the best big radial ever made, but not right for that airframe. It is physically much wider than the BMW 801, requires an ugly cowl line and doesn't suit the aeroplane at all in my view. I seem to recall the Wright R-2600 has been used too, another excellent engine in itself, but that's a bit of a fatty too. The ASh-82, a fine engine with Wright radial DNA all through it, is an excellent BMW substitute: powerful, compact and unlike the R-2800 it has the correct number of cylinders, 14 vs 18. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) As these replicas/copies will never need the full performance envelope of the original, then an R1830 would seem to be a good match for actual operation - it's not all that far short of reliable power compared to an early BMW810. At least, no shorter than an Allison is for a Jumo 213. Yes, it'd be better (as in more accurate in all ways) to have the original or something closer, but these are all only for fun anyway. Agreed that an R-2800 changes the lines a bit too much - but it's their money and hence their choice. If I had the money... and an Ash-82, I'd go for a Lavochkin 7 anyway. Nothing against these lovely Fw.190s, but now we've got them let's look to something rarer. Edited January 3, 2020 by Graham Boak 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 If you're not carrying any significant fuel or military equipment than an 1830 is enough to fly around a genuine 190 airframe for sure, but you'd need to find space for several hundred pounds of lead in the nose as well, so my temptation would be to fill the engine bay with metal capable of something useful rather than dead weight. The Jurca will balance with an 1830 because it's so much lighter everywhere, including down the back. I like the idea of an La-7 too. Though Ray Hanna always reckoned the La-9/11 was the best of the late piston hot-rod fighters, so that might be another place to look, and unlike the 7 there is actually one knocking around in the free world to buy/ But in the world of things affordable off a mere seven-figure lottery win, and if all you want do is fly rather than conserve a historical monument, you don't get better value than an Allison-powered Yak-3, either one of the new-builds from the 1990s, or an 11 back-converted. They go for about $400K upwards, which is absurdly good value against $2m - $3M for a properly set up Mustang or Merlin Spitfire, and the engines are both highly serviceable and go really well at all the sub 10,000 foot heights you can practically use in such an aeroplane in the UK these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 As a 73-year old non-pilot, I wasn't thinking of actually flying anything. Whilst not arguing with Ray Hanna (or anyone else) I had originally just put a generic Lavochkin but realised that one did exist so I needed to be slightly more precise. But thinking of what to fund, given the funds and no constraints, is rather like these long and eventually tedious "what Airfix would make a fortune with" threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Work In Progress said: It is physically much wider than the BMW Yes, I thought that, too, after I posted, but seemed to recall reading somewhere about an R-2800 being fitted; I totally agree that the R-1830 is a very good match both power and dimension-wise to fit inside an Fw-190's cowling, along with the Ash-82. That being said, I would love the hear Paul Allen's BMW-801 powered Wurger! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) You can see here what a blunt instrument it is with an R-2800 hung off the front. Goes well though. Edited January 3, 2020 by Work In Progress 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Looks pretty well done - seen a lot worse fit on production types. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Yes, the craftsmanship looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Work In Progress said: You can see here what a blunt instrument it is with an R-2800 hung off the front. How in the world did they cool that monster? Had to have a fan, as I don't see any evidence of cowl flaps or hot air exits. Wonder what the cg was with that big lump of iron hung on the nose? Just curious! I'll bet it goes! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolls-Royce Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Woo! Just imagine what a PITA a real A-2 or A-3 with an R-2800 would have been to a Spitfire V... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, 72modeler said: Wonder what the cg was with that big lump of iron hung on the nose? Just curious! I'll bet it goes! Mike For most mainstream variants of the 2800 the weight's only about the same as a BMW 801 or an ASh. I don't know exactly what version they have and we only generally have 100LL to burn these days, not the higher octane heavily leaded fuels that a lot of the higher powered late-war Allied engines relied on for their rated outputs, but I would be surprised if it didn't churn out 2000 hp quite happily. So call it a 300 hp upgrade, or 18%, from a BMW 801-D2. or, looked at another way, about the same power as a BMW gave with the MW-50 water/methanol injection that some of them had. It won't make a lot of difference to speed especially as it has to be draggier, but it's got to be good for 4000 fpm with no armament. Cooling: I hope they did fit a fan. If so I don't know offhand how the fan is driven, I know on the BMW installation it runs at 3x engine speed. Of course you can blow all the air you want at the front of an engine but it won't do any good if that air can't pass through and out the back somewhere. The baffling on the BMW installation is a work of art and I gather the main cooling air outlet is the gills adjacent to the exhaust, much as on a Sea Fury or Tempest II. General lore says the Centaurus installation was heavily influenced by the Fw190: I can't speak for how true that is but there are similarities for sure. The oil cooling arrangements are very different though, and Bristol & Hawker managed without a fan on the Centaurus, so arguably the Tempest II and Fury were an advance on the state of the art from the already impressive BMW installation in the 190. I would imagine that cooling was a large part of the engineering effort on this R-2800 conversion and would be interested to find out more. Edited January 4, 2020 by Work In Progress 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppie Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) In regards to the cooling of the R-2800 version, I remember reading that there are a bunch of coolers in the cowling and a radiator under each wing. You can see it in the image where the cross is. No fan as far as I know. There is another R-2800 one out there: https://imgr1.flugrevue.de/image-article169Gallery-60cc7a19-1655285.jpg Edited January 5, 2020 by hoppie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now