Quiet Mike Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 I picked up these two second hand MkI Spitfires last year, after a long hankering to make a prewar two bladed prop version. I love the yellow bordered A1 style roundels the first batch delivered had, and I was a little disappointed the newest tool version I got first didn't have this option a couple of the earlier versions had. I was also gutted it didn't come with the original flat unblown canopy, just three very similar (to my eyes) blown canopies. The detail is amazing though. 2010 kit top 2015 kit bottom by Mike, on Flickr The second kit was the previous tooling from 2007, which was is much more basic, especially in the cockpit, but came with the squadron transfers I wanted. It also has the earliest flat canopy. MkI Spitfire transfers by Mike, on Flickr Instruction comparisons by Mike, on Flickr 2015 transfer options by Mike, on Flickr 2010 transfer options by Mike, on Flickr Spitfire MkI – 19 Squadron RAF, (1) by Keith Pharo, on Flickr Now, my initial thoughts are to build the newest tooling MkI with the transfers from the older kit. I'm not sure yet what to do about that blown canopy though, as I'd really like to do it with a flat version. And for the second kit with the older tooling, my plans are a bit more ambitious for a novice builder. I have always wanted to build K5054, in one of its variants. This kit has already been started, but thankfully the previous owner gave up quite quickly. This makes me less nervous about making a balls up of it! I've already got a bit of reference material to swat up on. Being a Southampton lad Supermarine is a pet subject. I'm guessing I'm not the first to attempt this, and I'll have a gander on here later to see how others have gone about this. My initial thoughts and worries - where to get the transfers from - how to make the curved windscreen - how to make the stubby exhausts - radiator - tail skid - colour - wing planking ... I think my basic skills will be more suited to later appearances of the prototype, as trying to replicate that bare metal finish looks beyond me. Also later versions will be closer to the production model. Some reading up required by Mike, on Flickr Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I, K5054 by SDASM Archives, on Flickr Well, here goes. First build of 2020. First 1:48. Well, since the 80's anyway. Even then I think I only made one? My mince pies are thanking me already. 13
Quiet Mike Posted January 2, 2020 Author Posted January 2, 2020 I've already got some form, but not in plastic ... K5054 Guillows build by Mike, on Flickr 15
rob Lyttle Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 https://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/museum-aircraft/page/2 Hi Mike, do you know about the 5054 replica at the Tangmere museum? It's described in the blurb as being 99%accurate. I don't think you need exhaust stubs at all by the look of it. Just holes! I took some pictures of the plane when I was at the annual model show coupla years ago, I can try to find. I've been having a go at modelling the Boultbee "Silver Spitfire" that's just finished the epic World Tour.
Bell209 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 You want one of these: http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/paragon-designs-1-48-spitfire-prototype-conversion.html 1
Work In Progress Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Hopefully you are aware the whole of the wing skinning on K5054 was different from all production Spitfires, and it did not have the separate bolt-on wingtips of the production aircraft, so you need to eliminate all of the kit panel lines on the wings as well as modifying the fuselage ones if you are going with the early unpainted appearance. Because scribing new lines into a filled surface is painful, by far the easiest way to do the aircraft is to represent it in the blue-grey painted phase when all the panel lines were filled and painted over for public display purposes. I imagine you have already found what is probably the best thread on the eternal question of what the paint colour was, and what colours the unpainted aeroplane exhibited, but just in case: This build thread on the Alleycat 1/48 resin K5054 kit may also be helpful Decals: you have a choice of two suppliers https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48059 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/VA4869 Edited January 2, 2020 by Work In Progress 2
Quiet Mike Posted January 2, 2020 Author Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Bell209 said: You want one of these: http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/paragon-designs-1-48-spitfire-prototype-conversion.html If anyone wants to sell me one of these from their stash, I'd happily pay £7.50 🙂 11 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: https://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/museum-aircraft/page/2 Hi Mike, do you know about the 5054 replica at the Tangmere museum? It's described in the blurb as being 99%accurate. I don't think you need exhaust stubs at all by the look of it. Just holes! I took some pictures of the plane when I was at the annual model show coupla years ago, I can try to find. I've been having a go at modelling the Boultbee "Silver Spitfire" that's just finished the epic World Tour. Good call! I've not visitied Tangmere for a very long time, a good excuse for a trip out.
Quiet Mike Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) On 1/2/2020 at 12:32 PM, Work In Progress said: Hopefully you are aware the whole of the wing skinning on K5054 was different from all production Spitfires, and it did not have the separate bolt-on wingtips of the production aircraft, so you need to eliminate all of the kit panel lines on the wings as well as modifying the fuselage ones if you are going with the early unpainted appearance. Because scribing new lines into a filled surface is painful, by far the easiest way to do the aircraft is to represent it in the blue-grey painted phase when all the panel lines were filled and painted over for public display purposes. I imagine you have already found what is probably the best thread on the eternal question of what the paint colour was, and what colours the unpainted aeroplane exhibited, but just in case: This build thread on the Alleycat 1/48 resin K5054 kit may also be helpful Decals: you have a choice of two suppliers https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48059 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/VA4869 That's a great help, thanks WIP. Xtradecal transfers on order. I noticed they referenced Model Aircraft Monthly March 2006 in the instruction sheet, and a quick google also found a free digital download link for this, so some bonus extra reference material there. https://docer.pl/doc/v5vecx And yes, I agree with you on showing K5054 is it's display guise, maybe for the Hendon display in June. Edited January 3, 2020 by Quiet Mike spelling
Work In Progress Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Quiet Mike said: That's a great help, thanks WIP. Xtradecal transfers on order. I noticed they referenced Model Aircraft Monthly March 2006 in the instruction sheet, and a quick google also found a free digital download link for this, so some bonus extra reference material there. https://docer.pl/doc/v5vecx And yes, I agree with you on showing K5054 is it's display guise, maybe for the Hendon display in June. You're welcome. Incidentally, if I did want to do it in the original unpainted form, the greeny metal surface treatment, but with panel lines showing, rather than try to rescribe them across underlying filled panel lines, I'd draw them in with a _very_ sharp 4H pencil tip. 2
rob Lyttle Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) I found a couple of my pictures of the Tangmere museum 5054 (eventually). Might be useful, at least for deciding which way to go... Couple more if you need 'em. My own pics, and you or anyone else are welcome to use them as reqd! 👍 Edited January 5, 2020 by rob Lyttle Addition 10
Quiet Mike Posted January 5, 2020 Author Posted January 5, 2020 They are a great help Rob. Tonight I had a bit of fun whittling bits of plastic. The kit had already been started by the previous owner, so I undid some of that first. Mainly breaking down the cockpit assembly. It only has the option with pilot armour anyway, which I don't think the K5054 had in any of its guises. I removed that, and using the instructions from the latest kit, with much more detail, rebuilt it. The rudder pedals were very basic, so I whittled them down to something slightly more realistic. I thought they looked alright, until I saw the close up shots posted below. They are an improvement on what was there before though. Airfix MkI Spitfire conversion to K5054 Type 300 by Mike, on Flickr Airfix MkI Spitfire conversion to K5054 Type 300 by Mike, on Flickr And then, just to give my eyes a rest, I thought I'd try something that was bugging me. I've read that when parked, the elevators naturally 'drag', or hang down. The new kit has separate elevators, rudder and ailerons, which look great. The earlier kit does not. The static rudder and ailerons I can live with I think, but how hard can it be to cut the elevators out? I rashly just dug a scalpel in rather than google what others had done before. I cut in at an angle, not straight down, from both sides. I think it will work. Airfix MkI Spitfire conversion to K5054 Type 300 by Mike, on Flickr 6
Troy Smith Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 On 01/01/2020 at 23:53, Quiet Mike said: I've already got a bit of reference material to swat up on. Alfred Price - Spitfire Story, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spitfire-Story-Dr-Alfred-Price/dp/184425819X Has plans of the Spitfire prototype, lots of photos and is very good, a far better book for a newcomer than the Morgan Shacklady tome for getting an overview of Spitfire development, no Seafires though. The 2007 tool Spitfire shares the same fault as the old tool Vb, too high a thrust line, meaning the top of the cowling is slightly too high, and the nose ring is too big Easy enough to fix though. Line up one of the new tool back plates with the lower edge of the old tool nosering, mark the top edge (abou 1mm too high) chamfer down from the back of the cowling. Comparing the old with new too will make this very clear. I have suggested that the old tool airfix Vb is a better starting point for a Prototype (and Speed Spitfire) as it has mostly fine raised panel lines, so no filling and rescribing. I did also pick up the repop of the 78 era Revell Mk.II, which also has fine raised lines, and a quick check, is very well shaped. No gull wing though, and the wheel and prop are not good. A tip, both the Eduard Merlin 60 series of kits, and the ICM 60 series, come with both styles of rudder and tailplane, meaning there are may spares out there, and are a fst ans easy upgrade for the very clunky Airfix parts. Years ago @John Aero had a couple of photos online showing where the 2007 tool Airfix kit needed thinning out, and also how to adjust the thrust line, but these are no longer online, perhaps they are in an internet archive somewhere. HTH T 1
bigbadbadge Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 I'm In, great start. Good luck with your builds, I have a 32nd prototype conversion to do sometime soon and will watch with much interest. all the best Chris
Quiet Mike Posted January 5, 2020 Author Posted January 5, 2020 53 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said: I'm In, great start. Good luck with your builds, I have a 32nd prototype conversion to do sometime soon and will watch with much interest. all the best Chris We might have a few things in common Chris ... 1
bigbadbadge Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, Quiet Mike said: We might have a few things in common Chris … Hi Mike OOOoooooooooooo that is a lovely early bus is that a 1957 bus ??? You are right our love of Aircooled vehicles perhaps ??? I have sold my bug (1968 pinstriped bug) and my Bus (1972 Crossover) unfortunately some years ago. I have this now (well for the past 10 years now). Shes a 1967 Type 3 Fastie . I do get out in her when I can but what with work and work on the house have not been out properly for a while now. Apologies for the thread hijack but here she is below Take care of that lovely bus and good luck with your builds. Chris 1
Quiet Mike Posted January 5, 2020 Author Posted January 5, 2020 Very nice! Always liked Fastbacks and Squarebacks. We've had the Kombi yonks. Before that my first car at 16 was a '69 Beetle. Done about 70K in it over 12 years, not bad for a bit of fun at weekends going to shows, and the odd Euro road trip and holiday, all with a young family and a dog. Now the nippers are both older it gets used a lot less, but we had a bit of fun with it. My wife uses it when she goes BARC motor racing marshaling now, but I've hardly used it at all this year. (I've got my heart set on a Traction Avant, but don't have the space for two classic cars, and after so long with the Kombi I'm struggling to let go of it.) Right, those early exhaust ports ... Just playing around with an idea here. Not great, but not terrible ... I think it might have legs. I'm thinking if I add a thin shim along the bottom, it will make the cotton bud exhaust stubs a bit more oval, and fill the length of the gap a little better. K5054 exhaust by Mike, on Flickr K5054 exhaust by Mike, on Flickr 5 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Alfred Price - Spitfire Story, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spitfire-Story-Dr-Alfred-Price/dp/184425819X Has plans of the Spitfire prototype, lots of photos and is very good, a far better book for a newcomer than the Morgan Shacklady tome for getting an overview of Spitfire development, no Seafires though. HTH T Thanks for the advice Troy. And when my sister asked what I wanted for Christmas this year, I suggested this book! Fingers crossed when we belatedly catch up soon she'll have acted on my unsubtle hints and got a copy for me! 10
rob Lyttle Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Dude, that VW microbus is hanging together very nicely, but you need a couple of surfboards on the roof! 🌅🏖️🥤
Troy Smith Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Quiet Mike said: Right, those early exhaust ports ... Just playing around with an idea here. Not great, but not terrible ... I think it might have legs. I'm thinking if I add a thin shim along the bottom, it will make the cotton bud exhaust stubs a bit more oval, and fill the length of the gap a little better. They make look like holes, but they are short stub pipes, I had a go years ago doing something similar with 2mm brass tube, slightly squashed 40600215 by losethekibble, on Flickr The q-tip tubes do look good. Oh, an good investment is a beading tool, for redoing fasterners, not my idea. see here they can be got on ebay for £5-6 posted from China eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handmade-Jewelry-Tools-Diamond-Setting-Beading-Stone-Beaders-23Pcs-Set/122555118797 2
Quiet Mike Posted January 6, 2020 Author Posted January 6, 2020 12 hours ago, Troy Smith said: They make look like holes, but they are short stub pipes, I had a go years ago doing something similar with 2mm brass tube, slightly squashed The q-tip tubes do look good. Oh, an good investment is a beading tool, for redoing fasterners, not my idea. see here they can be got on ebay for £5-6 posted from China eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handmade-Jewelry-Tools-Diamond-Setting-Beading-Stone-Beaders-23Pcs-Set/122555118797 Wowsers, that is a riveting masterclass! What a superb build ... I'll give Basilisk a follow and check out his other builds tonight. I'll put that beading tool on the wish list. Being a newbie modeller though I'm having to build up tools slowly. This month I've already invested in a couple of Flory Washes, and Perfect Plastic Putty!
Quiet Mike Posted January 9, 2020 Author Posted January 9, 2020 Transfers from Hannants arrived today and look good. Long way off using them though! Slowly building up modelling supplies by Mike, on Flickr 4
Quiet Mike Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Well, taking close up photos is trickier than I expected. Apologies for these, the least dark and blurry ones. And my, doesn't it show up all your faults! Nearly done on the cockpit. The detail on this 2007 tool is quite basic compared to the 2015 offering, so I've attempted some scratch building to add more. Lack of available reference held me back slightly, so this is an approximation. I've mainly stuck to the production MkI. There are a few obvious errors, like forgetting to remove the side door crowbar that isn't seen on early Spitfires. Also I forgot to remove the gun button from the control column. I think once I have a bit more experience and confidence doing this I'll get better. The harness is made from foil from a bottle top (The obligatory Christmas Bucks Fizz I think) and some bits of wire. I used the Sutton harness as a guide. The seat needed a little work as the kit version only comes with armour plating. The control panel is also lacking details on the instrument dials. I'd like to add a few marks in white, but I don't think I have a paintbrush fine enough for this. I might also add a couple of bits of red/yellow colour, but I'm not sure the prototype would have had any of this. Spitfire cockpit painted and varnished by Mike, on Flickr Spitfire cockpit painted and varnished by Mike, on Flickr Spitfire cockpit painted and varnished by Mike, on Flickr I'm hoping an oil wash will make the details on this stand out a bit more. I have seen someone recommend using 50/50 floor polish/thinners, with a drop of colour added. I've yet to add a bottle of this floor polish to my armoury, but I hear it mentioned so often I feel it is compulsory to use it?? (Do you dip canopies in it too for extra shine?) Spitfire cockpit painted and varnished by Mike, on Flickr (Sorry for the focus being out on this, I am still experimenting using macro extension tubes with my old 50mm lens.) Spitfire cockpit painted and varnished by Mike, on Flickr Edited January 12, 2020 by Quiet Mike extra info 7
Troy Smith Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 49 minutes ago, Quiet Mike said: I'm hoping an oil wash will make the details on this stand out a bit more. I have seen someone recommend using 50/50 floor polish/thinners, with a drop of colour added. I've yet to add a bottle of this floor polish to my armoury, but I hear it mentioned so often I feel it is compulsory to use it?? (Do you dip canopies in it too for extra shine?) As I sometime post on here Mike, if the materials and techniques you use get the results you want, they are the "right" ones. Having spent way too much time on here, as my little mental goldfish bowl at points, what works for me, of them, may not work for you. So try new techniques it on scrap first! The use of floor polish and water was recommended by Roy Sutherland, http://barracudacals.blogspot.com/2015/12/how-to-paint-resin-seat-with-molded-in.html Quote To really pop out the detail and bring the belts to life, a wash is now applied using my patented ,exclusive, super secret, never-before-seen-on-TV Future Wash. This is the best was I've ever used on detail areas. It works wonders in gearbays and cockpits and wheel hubs and the like. Its not good for external panel washes, though. Mix 1 part Future floor wax (now called Pledge Floor Care and by other brand names such as Johnson's Klear overseas.) with 1 part water. Add a small amount of Acrylic black paint (I use Vallejo) and stir to make a very pale wash. Try it on some test pieces. Flood the area with the wash and watch it collect in corners, creating subtle gradated shadows when it dries. The advantage is that the pigment never breaks up like enamel washes do. Experiment with the concentration til you find what works for you. If its too subtle. Go back and apply a second coat once the first has dried. Kleer/Future/Quickshine really does help canopies, it's self levelling, and as such fills in small imperfections in clear plastic, making them smoother, and clearer. Another wash tip, thin artists oil paint with lighter fuel, (the zippo stuff, look in pound shops) it's makes a very thin and 'seeking' wash, and evaporates really fast. Neat oil paint can be streaked/removed with lighter fuel for making oil stains, and looks erm, like oil.... I bang on about this all the time, not sure if anyone else has tried it When I forced myself to actually finish a model, this is what I used for a panel line wash (the use of grey was a Roy Sutherland tip BTW) and for the oil stains, see here https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/ The oil paint dates to 1973, the chalk pastels came off ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Set-Jakar-Assorted-Earth-Colour-Artist-Pastels-Art-Sketching-Drawing-Sticks/292704469350 I have only ever used pound shop superglue as well.... I did go wild today and spend a pound on a tub of talc, as I wanted some to make some filler with said cheap superglue. Just what you will need to fill those wing panel lines in which bring me back to 'if it works for you' comment, I suspect many times modellers use branded model products as that is what other modellers use describe using, some of which can be got elsewhere much cheaper for use on something else...like floor polish, a self levelling acrylic varnish for a shiny floor....won't work for that if sold in 20 ml tubs. I digress, but it's worth thinking laterally.. Finallly 1 hour ago, Quiet Mike said: Sorry for the focus being out on this, I am still experimenting using macro extension tubes with my old 50mm lens the pic of the brass exhaust pips was IIRC taken using a basic 2003 era point and shoot digital camera with a magnifying glass held over the front... that one is not quite in focus, but I got some good results from laughably crude set up on occasion. It maybe apocryphal, (and so I'm not about too google it) but apparently in the space race the USA spent thousands of dollars developing a pen that would write in zero gravity and in a vacuum. the USSR issued cosmonauts with pencils.... Neat job so far. HTH 1
Biggles87 Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 You’ve made a good start, and getting some excellent advice. Looking forward to more. John 1
Adam Poultney Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Looks brilliant so far, I like early spits 1
Quiet Mike Posted January 13, 2020 Author Posted January 13, 2020 Cheers for the feedback Troy Smith, it's much appreciated for someone on the bottom rung of the ladder of this long learning experience. Are builds ever not a learning experience?! As a modeller on a budget, I'm all for thinking outside of the box and looking for alternatives to commercial products. I've not heard of the talc/superglue tip before, so will give it a try. Next time Lidl are selling packs of superglue again I'll pick another up. I'm picking up tips from Youtube as well, but these often come with a long and expensive shopping list of materials. I have bitten the bullet on a few products - Flory Washes are one, but for others I've tried to make my own. Homemade harnesses and homemade canopy masks for instance. I'm not a prolific builder, I enjoy the process of building. Time isn't an issue so I don't mind spending a few hours making stuff, and saving money for more essential supplies. As I don't have floor polish yet, I may try the oil paints and lighter fuel wash, on a test piece! 1
rob Lyttle Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Just looking at your exhaust mods in the background of the decal picture, I'd say you've nailed it from what I can see. Here's another Tangmere picture.... Of course, there may not even be an engine under the cowling here but there's nothing actually sticking out of the apertures here. Tailplanes.... And the canopy is very plain. Is the front screen a good copy of what should be there? I can't vouch for that, but what Tangmere has could be easily scratch built by bending a piece of thin clear sheet.... 3
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