Paul Gillan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Folks, Long time lurker, first time poster...Happy New Year and all that. I recently picked up the HK Models 1/48 B-17G Early. So in a quest for knowledge, I went out an bought pretty much every book available on the topic. To my surprise, I also had the odd book already in my library. And I spent a few hours trawling the 'net. But this just created further issues. So for the B-17 aficionados out there, can I get a quick rundown on the following questions: what defines an "Early" B-17G? can I build a RAF Fortress from this variant? Are there decals available? any decent links to B-17 sites or build logs would also be appreciated. Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 16 hours ago, Paul Gillan said: what defines an "Early" B-17G? B-17's, like many US types, are complex in their evolution, which is why they have block numbers, which will let you know what production block, from what plant, had what features, when built. Quote can I build a RAF Fortress from this variant? Probably yes, the joy here is the RAF were less specific than the US, and would apply a Mark number, so an RAF Fortress III is a B-17 G..... but to know what the layout of waist windows and what tail turret were fitted for example, you need the RAF serial, which will give you the US serial, which will then give you the production block...... I'm betting you wish you never asked now..... A more pragmatic approach is to find RAF Fortress III's of interest, and see how well they match the kit. or just build it as what you want, as only loony obsessive on places like here either know or care ....(laughing manically in padded cell.....) Less facetiously, the Fortress III was used mostly(only?) by Coastal Command EDIT 1 hour ago, EwenS said: I've also had a look at the fates of the Coastal Command Fortresses. Most of the survivors were SOC in the latter part of 1945 as the last CC Met units stopped using them (521 sqn was the last to use them in Feb 1946). However a few lingered on in MUs before being SOC between March and Sept 1947, including 2 Fortress III (CC only ever operated 3) in a batch sold to International Alloys in March 1947. I'm surprised that they lasted so long post-war given how old they were. from https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065121-what-became-of-raf-special-fortresses-following-ww2/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-3540853 and by 100 Group for ECM work. the book for 100 Group B-17s is Aircraft of 100 Group, a modellers guide by Martin Streetly, long OOP, PDF are available online, I have posted a link on occasion, and this does have a list of RAF serials what this means for US block numbers and thus detail layout, say if you can't find it... Years ago Paragon did a 100 group conversion, and I'll bet another will be done now the new kit is out. Externally mostly a load of aerials and the chin turret replaced with an H2S radome. Been discussed on here a few times, stick 'britmodeller 100 group b-17 ' into google... (good general tip for here, the site search is not great) 16 hours ago, Paul Gillan said: Are there decals available? yes. Oh, you want specfics...... DK Decals do a 100m Group sheet https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/DKD48009?result-token=umYEA and there have been others. Kitsworld do several RAF Fortress sheets, have a browse... https://www.kitsworld.co.uk/index.php?CATEGORY=4&SUB=1 Others will know more.... PS welcome to the forums, sorry for the somewhat flippant attitude of the above, one of those days... at least the actual info above is not cobblers.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One 48 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Was about to create thread similar to this, but will keep it here instead of making a new thread. I have the kit too and it looks amazing (Really hope HK give us 1/48 Lancs and more) but for my B-17 I'm happy to build a USAF one, kit decal sheet looks OK, not over exciting, safe 2 choices I guess? I would have liked to do a Bit Of Lace but understand that Aircraft differs from this B-17 G Early, so something NM like that would be nice, are there any A/M decal sheets out for this kit yet for natural metal finish/good nose art and as striking as Bit of Lace looked? What about physical A/M? I would like a good IP, seatbelts, brass gun barrels too, but anything else that really would enhance the kit? I know a lot of the interior won't be seen, apart from maybe the nose section that I'd really like to tart up inside, plan on building it on the ground on a base diorama wise with crew doors open, so maybe appropriate crew figures too, posed either before or after a raid. Perhaps a loading of bombs scenario, a couple of support trucks, that sort of thing. Thanks in advance for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 9 hours ago, One 48 said: are there any A/M decal sheets out for this kit yet for natural metal finish/good nose art and as striking as Bit of Lace looked? As the Monogram B-17G was basically an early G, lots. There are some in the Kitsworld link, and Aeromaster and others did loads. some older sheets are listed here https://www.ultracast.ca/1-48-Decals-B-17-s/360.htm Bear in mind it seems the HK will do a late model G, so you could just wait.... 9 hours ago, One 48 said: What about physical A/M? I would like a good IP, seatbelts, brass gun barrels too, all are or have been available for the Monogram kit, and I'm sure Eduard will supply new sets as well. 9 hours ago, One 48 said: but anything else that really would enhance the kit? read the reviews and decide. 9 hours ago, One 48 said: so maybe appropriate crew figures too, posed either before or after a raid. again, Monogram did a load of crew figures with their 70's bomber kits, which are decent. Sort of thing that is in many a spares box. Their B-24 kit came with a basic Cletrac tractor. I think ICM do USAAF ground crew set https://www.scalemates.com/kits/icm-48083-usaaf-pilots-and-ground-personnel--121782 a better bet for a B-17 would be the Prieser set https://www.scalemates.com/kits/preiser-67003-usaaf-pilot-and-ground-crews-1942-1945--253160 down the page on the link there are lots more USAAF figure sets 9 hours ago, One 48 said: Perhaps a loading of bombs scenario, a couple of support trucks, that sort of thing. Tamiya do a 6x6 US truck, and also an refueller based on the same chassis, as well a jeep. Bound to be more out there, searching up some of the above will find related items. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 This is the best source of information on the Coastal Command Fortresses of all marks. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boeing-B-17-Fortress-Coastal-Command/dp/8365281546/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3SQZ6V9EJACWD&keywords=boeing+b-17+fortress+in+raf+coastal+command+service&qid=1577981608&s=books&sprefix=The+b-17+fortress%2Cstripbooks%2C176&sr=1-1 The 3 CC aircraft were B-17G-BO-50 HB786 ex 42-102437 220 sqn / V HB791 ex 42-98021 220 sqn / T HB792 ex 42-98022 220 sqn / U All these were in natural metal finish throughout their CC service. Of the other 90 RAF serials, 13 were returned to the USAAF as replacements for 13 B-17F SR*** serialled aircraft delivered to 100 Group earlier, and the remainder went to 100 Group. The 100 group aircraft were modified with the various jammers,aerials etc by Scottish Aviation at Prestwick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) HI This maybe of interest, can be viewed free online https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-b/boeing/item/3573-an-01-20eg-2-erection-ad-maintenance-instructions-for-b-17g-part-1-2 main b-17 page https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-b/boeing/itemlist/category/166-b-17flyingfortress cheers jerry Edited January 2, 2020 by brewerjerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gillan Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Gents, Great responses, thanks kindly for your efforts. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 HK's definition of an early G is non-staggered waist guns and the standard stinger tail. When they first released the 1/32 model they did so with a late G with staggered waists and the Cheyenne tail and there was plenty of feedback from modelers wanting the standard tail and non staggered waists, so it seems they decided to try and remedy that with their first 1/48 release, however there are still a couple things not typical of a true "early G". The enclosed radio gun and wing tip vents for the long range Tokyo tanks were not found on early production Gs. Also, the spherical fairing covering the ball turret supports on the outside of the turret were common on F models but not many, if any Gs. As has been stated, its best to look at photos. Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed-Vega all made B-17s and not everyone always introduced modifications at the same time. Also, even if a plane didn't come from the factory with a certain mod (enclosed radio gun or Cheyenne tail) it could've been modified in the field. A couple good sites for production blocks and serial numbers are: Serial numbers Production blocks Since the model has just recently been released it may take a few months for the aftermarket companies to catch up. That said, Eduard has gotten a head start. Searching on Hannants will show several PE sets available either right now or in future releases. Their Brassin line also offers a nice set of resin replacement wheels. I imagine we'll see a set of Brassin resin engines in the future as well like is available for the 1/32 kit and the Monogram 1/48 kit (If I had to pick one area lacking in the HK kit it would be the engines). Master offers a nice set of metal barrels. Even though they may be marketed for the Monogram kit they will work just fine with the HK kit, especially since HK decided to mold the barrels separately in the kit and the gun breeches are already drilled out. The Master barrels are slightly wider than these holes so you'll just have to widen the breeches a tad with a pin vise. For decals, the best bets have already been mentioned. Kitsworld has come on in recent years offering a number of sets with nice nose art. The Aeromaster/Eagle Strike sets were very nice but out of production. Ebay and Ultracast (mentioned above) are your best bet for those. Last thing I'll touch on is figures. Unfortunately, there are not many sets to be had. While Scalemates lists a bunch of sets, most of the useful ones for a B-17 diorama are out of production and only show up once in a great while on Ebay. The Verlinden USAAF bomber Crew, Teknics American Bomber crew and above mentioned Preiser set are all very nice but are out of production and not available anywhere. A couple Verlinden sets to show up regularly on ebay and those are the USAAF fighter pilots (3 figures, one of which is in full flight gear) and USAAF Ground Crew (3 figures). CMK also has a couple sets - US Bomber Pilots (3 figures, including one in full gear and another in a flak jacket) and US Fighter Pilots (2 figures). The ICM pilot and ground crew set mentioned above is also pretty nice. Another option is if you have any old Monogram 1/48 bomber kits in the stash, there's usually several figures in those. Happy modeling! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One 48 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Special thanks from me and I'm sure (Paul Gillan) to Troy and new Member Matt B. Outstanding help, very much appreciated, thanks a bunch guys for both your feedback, what a great 1/48 kit HK have given us for B-17 enthusiasts. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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