Procopius Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 I turned up this IWM photo of a Lysander III(SD) in the Middle East used to evacuate an OSS officer, but it's frustrating tantalizing, in that you can almost see in: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209408 Incidentally, the American in question survived the war and lived until 2015: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-04-11-0404110445-story.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 I thought maybe I could use this 1/48 build, but the rear cockpit seems totally different. Maybe that piece is where the radio goes, though? Also, there seems to be a second fuel tank wedged under the sort of roll bars above the fuel tank -- should I be adding this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) That's an oil tank above the internal fuel tank--it was needed to keep the engine lubricated for the SD's 10 hour endurance. The additional fuel tank is external. It's actually a right cylindrical tank with nose and tail cones. Contemporaneous photos always appear to show the nose cone as glossy compared to the tank per se and the tail cone. Edited January 4, 2020 by dnl42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, dnl42 said: That's an oil tank above the internal fuel tank--it was needed to keep the engine lubricated for the SD's 10 hour endurance. OK. The external tank is provided in the kit, but I don't believe the oil tank is. So I'll need to sort that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 AHA! After much searching, this test build seems to answer a great many questions: https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=33422 It also shows I assembled the cowling wrong, because it needs to be built around the engine. These instructions really could do with a little work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Hm. That build shows the armed rear cockpit, which the SD didn't have. As you've already noted, it's missing the added oil tank. I assume they also left off the boarding ladder, which I believe is in the kit. Edited January 4, 2020 by dnl42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Nice work PC - especially with the 'secret' instructions… 4 hours ago, Stew Dapple said: My guess - and it is just that but there's no harm in testing it with a dry-fit - is that the recessess in the sides of D2 fit between the sloping back end of parts E20 and E28 and the unnumbered part that looks like a landmine goes on top of them and butts against the back end of D2, but that for some reason this is not shown on the completed parts drawing... does that make sense? I think I'm with Stew in thinking that, maybe, the D2 part fits on top of the frame under the 'landmine' and forms the bulkhead to close off the rear of the cockpit? I think… No wait! I've just followed your link to the test build and can see there it's a shelf for the gun barrels to rest on when stored… confusing eh? I hope you're able to find an extra tank from somewhere and that the kit builds the SOE version - as you said, I think the thing in the kit that goes under the fuselage is a storage bin thingy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Procopius said: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-04-11-0404110445-story.html Unfortunately not available in Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrzeM Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I'm joining this impressive topic! Good luck Edward! Lysander is very interesting airplane! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 In this cutaway picture there's what you were searching for (I think...) Cheers, Moggy (big library) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Moggy said: In this cutaway picture there's what you were searching for (I think...) Do note that multiple aircraft configurations are shown in that image. Again, the best information on the SD mods is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I was referring to the kit part in question. Look at the end of the Lysander canopy - there's the placing for the D2 part. BTW I scanned it from the original magazine for the purpose of helping Procopius' Lysander build - it was not "found" on the Internet. The rest of the article is thus available on request I have no doubt that the book you mentioned has the most complete information regarding the Special Duties' Lysanders Cheers, Moggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) ...the place I meant is at the end of the gunner well slightly inside the top of the fuselage, Am I making any sense? 😜 Cheers, Moggy (increasingly confused) Edited January 4, 2020 by Moggy silly language 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Procopius said: For instance, here, where the hell is part D2 going? PC, I believe that is the rear bulkhead inside the cupola - you can see it here in grey (with the slot for the machine gun). The part D2 also includes the rear shelf. The gun magazines usually sat on that shelf. Below that was a sliding/pull out shelf that contained the radio. Note though that I was building a MkII not a MkIII but they were very similar in some respects ah... found a better shot, you can just see the sliding shelf underneath the magazine shelf 20 hours ago, Procopius said: I think part E41 is the cushion the passenger sits on. I can't seem to find good photos of the Lizzie's backseat. Looking at the assembly instructions I'd have guessed something to do with the gun mount, but the here-it-is-assembled diagram shows it to be the rear seat, though not like any of the seats I found during my research. Given that the MkIII SOE used the rear section for any number of uses, I think you'd be perfectly okay with configuring your own passenger area. (I just browsed through this and am not sure whether your doing a MkIII or an SOE version) The speed with which these things were switched out meant that it was highly unlikely that a lot of time was put into creature comforts and modular design. - more likely a couple of trestles and a plank to sit on. Utilitarian would be the order of the day *edit MkIII not MkII Edited January 5, 2020 by hendie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, hendie said: PC, I believe that is the rear bulkhead inside the cupola - you can see it here in grey (with the slot for the machine gun). Ah! the old Hawk kit. I recognize that green plastic. I built one back in the late 60's. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 This 1945 film appears to show two agents sitting a sort of bench seat facing forward in the rear fuselage, almost against the back: I think I'll have to go with that, now to figure out how best to scratch build it and the extra oil tank. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Great movie to watch while cleaning up parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I started it at the beginning and saw a nice Halifax Mk.V fitted with 4-blade props. Edward, I see it as they're sitting back to the pilot, facing rearward. The camera angle is just a bit lower than the one in this picture. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 38 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Edward, I see it as they're sitting back to the pilot, facing rearward. The camera angle is just a bit lower than the one in this picture. Yes, but isn't that a photo of the gunner on an Army Cooperation Lysander? That said, I think you're right. When I rewatched the film, the two agents seem to be facing towards the tail as they stand, then turn around to dismount via the ladder. Thanks! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 22 hours ago, dnl42 said: That's an oil tank above the internal fuel tank--it was needed to keep the engine lubricated for the SD's 10 hour endurance. The additional fuel tank is external. It's actually a right cylindrical tank with nose and tail cones. Contemporaneous photos always appear to show the nose cone as glossy compared to the tank per se and the tail cone. So just to be sure, are you saying this is an oil tank? From what I've seen online (I know, I know...) the indication seems to be it's an additional (and optional) fuel tank. Did oil tanks generally have dual feed lines, one on either side? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 The added 150g fuel tank is slung below the aircraft. One of the books discusses the need for the additional lube oil tank for the SD's greatly extended duration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, dnl42 said: The added 150g fuel tank is slung below the aircraft. One of the books discusses the need for the additional lube oil tank for the SD's greatly extended duration. Disappointing, I was hoping to avoid having to add that. Tonight I picked up this memoir on Kindle, which will hopefully prove an informative read. Here's where we are on the internals: And how they more or less should look when together: You'll also note I managed to prise the cowl open by main force alone (emitting a suitably herculean grunt as I did so), and got the exhaust collector piping in there after some sanding. Sanding, in fact, was the name of the game tonight. The so far great fit of the kit was revealed to evapourate once one attempted to close things up, as I discovered when test-fitting the cockpit framing into the fuselage tonight, and vigourous sanding and usage of my micro-chisel set were required to widen the various channels and narrow the framing to ensure something like a decent fit. The engine also required sanding down to fit in the cowl. I also dunked the clear parts in Future, since there's going to be some glue/plastic interactions for sure when the wings go on and I want them to be well cured by then. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Nice work! It's odd Dora left the additional lube oil tank out. At least the surviving aircraft provide excellent references for the tank's shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 I PMed Dora Wings about the rear cockpit the other day, and he very helpfully replied with some photos and extra information. Unfortunately no good photo of the rear cockpit of a Mark III(SD) exists, but it seems that the weird part shaped a little like a toilet seat lid is a rotating carousel for storing spare magazines on for the guns. So we can safely omit it on this build. I'm really impressed by the fact that he took the time to reply to me, and that he was so helpful. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Great service! These pictures of the tank from my 1/48 build might help? I think this pipe at the back is supposed to go into the other tank? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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