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DH Mosquito tail fairing - Monica or signal light?


Dave Swindell

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Just now, Wez said:

They look like flare signal cartridges to me, latter day ones had metal cases.

Ahh, I thought they might be dye markers.  So the WW2 ones were stored in those plastic pouches?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, 11bravo said:

Ahh, I thought they might be dye markers.  So the WW2 ones were stored in those plastic pouches?

 

 

Looks like cardboard/paper to me.

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37 minutes ago, 11bravo said:

Anthony, this is completely OT but I'm starting a Mosquito build  Can you tell me if that fire extinguisher is authentic?  Was the original brass or painted red and this one is just heavily weathered.

 

 

As far as I know RAF fire extinguishers were indeed brass coloured at the time.

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18 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Ahh, I thought they might be dye markers.  So the WW2 ones were stored in those plastic pouches?

 

 

As @Wez has alluded to above, these appear to be flare cartridge cases that have already been fired & retained here for display purposes. Flare cartridges of that vintage were like a large shotgun cartridge with a brass shell head and a high density tubular cardboard body, The top would be either crimped or rolled over onto a cardboard disc when seals off the end the flare fires from.

Steve.

Edited by stevehnz
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18 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Anthony, this is completely OT but I'm starting a Mosquito build  Can you tell me if that fire extinguisher is authentic?  Was the original brass or painted red and this one is just heavily weathered.

 

Same for those "pouches" next to it (what are those anyway)?  Are they original?   If you have any other detail shots like this one, feel fee to share, they would be immensely useful.  

Yep, that's the original extinguisher.  Polished brass originally.  They had a red band painted around the top.  Probably postwar they went red

 

That is a very difficult version of Graviner extinguisher to find.  And if anyone has any spare cartridges, I would like to put some in my Auster T.7 rebuild

 

HTH

 

Edited by Anthony in NZ
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  • 1 month later...

This has been a most interesting thread, thanks to everyone who contributed.  I have a question - does anyone know if the Type F fairing under the tail would have been left open or blanked off if the lamp wasn't installed?   I'm building the 32nd scale Tamiya kit (as a Strike Wing Mossie which surely wouldn't have had the flasher unit installed) and it has this part open with no cover.   Any info would be appreciated. 

 

 

John

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Hmmm, good question John, and something I had not thought of before.  My initial reaction was blanked off, but I have no reason to know why or proof.  I am going to agree that it was left open as Crimea River says.  I think our fairing is missing so will have to check part numbers/refs.

 

I would go with open, unless I can prove otherwise.  besides I am going crosseyed wiring up the gunbay on my 24th one John and will be a nice project with my coffee this morning

 

Cheers Anthony

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Ok, 

This exploded drawing dosent show a cover, however it clearly shows the lamp mounts (Parts 33 & 34), so perhaps this drawing was intended for an airframe fitted with this lamp.  However in the parts listing there is no cover plate mentioned (not surprising given the drawing didn't have it either

 

CoMyaf.jpg

 

However, looking at photo's....is this a cover or a lamp?? Almost looks like a cover to me, but you decide.  Bet that was a bumpy ride!

B5RvrW.jpg

 

This is NZ2336 tail fairing, which did not have the flasher unit fitted, blanked off.  However it is important to note John blanked off all the openings on his plane when he put her in storage.  So is this his or factory fitted?  My gut feeling it is, that's because there is red dope over all the other parts he blanked off. I am hoping to see this sometime to confirm, but not in the near future sorry.

VtRgzX.jpg

 

Now, look at this.  Notice the ring of paint edge on this fairing, perhaps a blanking plate was fitted?

zTQS7H.jpg

 

So at this stage, this is the best evidence I can produce sorry....your call.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers Anthony

Edited by Anthony in NZ
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I misinterpreted the question and my answer relates to the concave cutout and not where the lamp actually mounts. I don't know about the the lamp opening and would need to dig up the tail cone from storage to have a look-see

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Based on Anthony's great selection of pics, it looks probable that at least some Mossies had this opening sealed off.  Especially the picture of crash landed VV-Z which clearly shows something in the tail cone.   Since Coastal Command Mossies wouldn't have needed the "Flasher" unit, my money is on a plug.   Only unfortunate part is that I wish I had read this post sooner, I already went ahead and glued the fairing in place on my build.   Going to be quite difficult to seal this off with the fairing in place.   

B5RvrW.jpg

Completely OT but in looking at VV-Z, it appears that the underside of the left horizontal stab and elevator were partially camouflaged.   Any idea what that's about?    

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16 minutes ago, 11bravo said:

Any idea what that's about?    

I don't recall, but if the tailplanes on the Mossie were interchangeable. maybe the LH is a replacement, and so was flipped over to be mounted? Dark areas are too sharply defined to be oil, I think. Just guessing!

Mike

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4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I don't recall, but if the tailplanes on the Mossie were interchangeable. maybe the LH is a replacement, and so was flipped over to be mounted? Dark areas are too sharply defined to be oil, I think. Just guessing!

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

I was thinking the same as well but the pattern on the pic above doesn't match the standard topside "night fighter" scheme as shown on most diagrams I've seen.   Very interesting....

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4 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Completely OT but in looking at VV-Z, it appears that the underside of the left horizontal stab and elevator were partially camouflaged.   Any idea what that's about?   

 

Could it be exhaust staining? Engine oil/coolant?

 

 

 

 

Chris

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12 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I don't recall, but if the tailplanes on the Mossie were interchangeable. maybe the LH is a replacement, and so was flipped over to be mounted? Dark areas are too sharply defined to be oil, I think. Just guessing!

Mike

 

The Mossie tail plane is one complete unit and can not be flipped over due to the offset elevator control links.

 

72703116_2414646931916600_56985937038960

 

I'd suggest that these could be doped fabric patches.

Edited by Crimea River
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10 hours ago, Crimea River said:

 

The Mossie tail plane is one complete unit and can not be flipped over due to the offset elevator control links.

 

72703116_2414646931916600_56985937038960

 

I'd suggest that these could be doped fabric patches.

I think you must be correct.   I know fabric / dope is standard to repair damage to fabric covered surfaces but would they have used this approach for damage to the wooden horizontal stabs?  I've often wondered how they repaired bullet holes in wooden structures like those of the Mosquito. 

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34 minutes ago, 11bravo said:

I think you must be correct.   I know fabric / dope is standard to repair damage to fabric covered surfaces but would they have used this approach for damage to the wooden horizontal stabs?  I've often wondered how they repaired bullet holes in wooden structures like those of the Mosquito. 

 

The Mosquito's entire surface was covered in doped fabric over the wood. Depending on the extent of damage, holed plywood skins could be repaired by cutting out the damaged area, feathering the edges of the hole (known as scarfing) at a 1:12 slope and then gluing in a new patch piece of plywood to match the cutout. Of course, fabric was then reapplied and could often remain in the red dope colour unless camouflage colours were reapplied as well.

 

Edited by Crimea River
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The dark patches on the tailplane are oil and exhaust stains as the points on the tailplane are behind the engines. Most of the wartime Mossies were worked hard and did not look like factory fresh examples .

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1 hour ago, T-21 said:

The dark patches on the tailplane are oil and exhaust stains as the points on the tailplane are behind the engines. Most of the wartime Mossies were worked hard and did not look like factory fresh examples .

Perhaps you are looking at the stain on the left and I would agree. However, we are talking about the different coloured areas at the extreme right where there is a perfectly straight colour demarcation line on the stabilizer and another one, further inboard, on the elevator. Oil blow-back from the engines won't do that.   

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17 minutes ago, Crimea River said:

Oil blow-back from the engines won't do that.

The clincher on that one is the line on the elevator is much further inboard than the line on the tailplane, oil streaking definitely wouldn't do that.

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Looks like the lower aft fuselage is pretty grubby as well (leaking fuel / hydraulic fluid from combat damage perhaps?).   VV-Z would make for an interesting model to build....    If nothing else, it gives me some guidance on weathering the oil/exhaust soot on the undersides (and I assume topsides as well) of the horizontal stabs.

 

 

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Keep in mind that it looks to be a belly landing and a lot of dirt would be kicked up and dragged along. Interesting that the tail wheel is down so maybe the main gear collapsed.

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