HMS Courageous, carrier

[Courageous]

Hi Guys,

 

Bit of a long shot. For no other reason than it's my user name, what are my options for building the carrier HMS Courageous that was sunk in 1939. I know of the HP Models 1/700 offering of Courageous. Glorious and Furious but they seem as rare as hens teeth at the moment. I don't know if their are plans that could be used? I don't think their is a Courageous Class Cruiser available as a donor and what sacrilege that would be if their was. I think my only option is to wait for an HP offering, unless you guys know anything different?

 

Stuart

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Stuart, How much scratching do you want to do and how accurate do you want the finished model? My personal preferred scale is 1/600 (yeah, I know, a dying breed 😥), mainly Airfix, and I would like to build the sister-ship HMS Glorious, off a Repulse hull sometime in the future. I know that the hull dimensions, anti-torpedo bulges etc differed a little between Glorious and Repulse but I think I can live with it. No doubt some on the forum will be horrified 😲 with this slack attitude of mine to authenticity 😁, but if nothing else is available for the ship you want to do  .  .  .  .          Just an idea.         HTH

      Regards, Jeff.

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

I don't think their is a Courageous Class Cruiser available as a donor

Admiralty Modelworks did excellent ( and expensive) resin kits of Outrageous and Curious as 1917/18 battle cruisers in 1:700. Given how little of the kit hull would be seen after the conversion, and how much scratch work would go on top, the best use of this kit would be as a template to scratch this as well. You can then build the kit as intended. Of the two I'd go for Glorious, there's a memorial to the ship and her crew in a little chapel a few miles from me.

[Courageous]

1 hour ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

slack attitude of mine to authenticity

It's a thought though...

59 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Admiralty Modelworks

Another kid on the block and as you an expensive option, even if you could get one.

Either of those two options still require some plans to work from, are these available?

 

Stuart

 

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

Either of those two options still require some plans to work from, are these available?

There's a  polish monograph on the weird sisters which has drawings, I'm away from my library  for a day or two, more details when I get home if no one else chips in.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Stuart, no plans I'm afraid, only drawings and photos from the net. These are usually sufficient for my average level of skill, considering the inaccuracies that will be inherent with the hull, as mentioned above. Most of my research has been for Glorious though, you might get lucky looking for Courageous. Regards, Jeff.

[Dave Swindell]

@Courageous Hi Stuart, sorry for taking a while to get back to you, got distrated with Mosquitos.

 

From what I have in my library, there's no single reference with drawings to base a model of Courageous/Glorious as aircraft carriers on, however with 2 or 3 sources there's enough to make a start.

 

Steve Baker - Grand Fleet Battle Cruisers

Plan & Profile drawings of Courageous 1917, Furious 1917, Furious 1918.

 

David Hobbs - British Aircraft Carriers

Basic outline internal profile and flight deck plan of Courageous as converted (with basic flight dec dimensions) Half a dozen photo's of Gloriouos and one of Coourageous.

 

Norman Friedman - British Carrier Aviation

Basic outline internal profile  of Courageous as converted

Midships sections up to first hangar deck of Courageous and Furious

Plan and profile of Glorious 1938

Internal profile, flight deck and hangar decks plans of Furious 1942

Half a dozen photo's of each

 

R A Burt - British Battleships of World War One

Outboard profile and plan (large scale double spread) Courageous 1916 as completed

Outboard profile and plan (large scale double spread) Furiouos 1917 as completed

 

R A Burt - British Battleships 1919 -1945

General Arrangement profile and plan of Courageous as converted 1928 (Small scale poop and foredeck look a bit broad in the beam)

Various sketch designs of proposals

Sketch profiles (both sides) showing courageous 1934 and Glorious 1936/7

Midship profile of Glorious with proposal for single hangar conversion superimposed

Inboard and outboard profiles (large scale double spread) Glorious1932 as completed, with details for Glorious extended flight deck 1936, Gloriou Island 1937 and Couorageous Island 1938

7 Photos Courageous, 8 Glorious, most large or double spread (1 each)

Inboard and outboard profiles (large scale double spread) Furious 1927 (outboard) and 1939 (inboard)

 

Warship Profile 23 HMS Furious 1917-1925

Contains hull sections (but remember though similar, Furious had a wider beam)

Colour profile & plan 1918, smaller profiles of modifications

 

Warship Profile 24 HMS Furious 1925-1948

Colour profile & plan 1941

 

The Polish monograph I have is Biate Stonie Courageous, Glorious, Furious by Tadeusz Klimczyk

Colour profile of Courageous 1916

Colour profile and plan of Furious 1917

Colour profile and plan of Furious 1937

Inboard & Outboard profile Glorious 1932

Inboard & Outboard profile Furious 1927

Illustrated throughout, all Polish text. The drawings appear to be derived from those in Burt and Friedman

 

For Courageous/Glorious, strangely the two Battleship books by Burt are the better references, though they were never Battleships before or after conversion. you need both for the lower hull and the carrier conversion, and they're lacking sections which you need to source from one of the other books. The photo's and drawings in these are both large and clear. None of the drawings in any of the books are scaled, you'd have to copy and size them from known published dimensions (loa etc, Burt gives legends) Both Burt books (plus the pre WWI volume) have been recently republished and are available at reasonable prices, if you have an interest in British capital ships, they're highly recommended. The last in the series on Vanguard has just been published and was delivered by Santa, currently on the bedside table.

 

 

[iang]

I have Courageous (1916), Furious (1917), Glorious (1935) and Furious (1941) currently building in 1/350 at an early stage of construction. I'm a serial starter and non-completer, so none of them will probably commission, but I do drag them out and work on them from time to time. I found that the Lindberg 1/400 Hood hull makes an excellent starting point for these ships in 1/350, needing only modification at the bow and stern, and adding some additional flare to the hull forward, plus the addition of bulges depending on the subject. The rest of the Lindberg kit is junk, but the kit can be sourced fairly cheaply, and I have another should I want to make all 3 Furious configurations. 

 

In addition to the references listed by Dave Swindell, there is a 4 part series of articles in Ships Monthly on Glorious by Jim Dixon, (Jan -Apr 1976),  and Model Boats  ran a number of articles on Furious and Courageous that include small plans (1/960): Furious (1917) October 1967, Furious (1918) December 1967, Furious (1925) February 1968, Courageous (1916), October 1967 (probably not worth getting as the plans for Courageous in the Baker book are much better).  In addition, colour plans for all three are in a Polish monograph on the ships by Tadeusz Klimcyck, which I've had enlarged to 1/350.  Finally, I have 1/400th plans for Glorious (1935) and Furious (1941) which are published by Windjammer. I've some doubts about these, but at least they give hull sections. A book in the Seaforth series of Builders Plans would make progress much easier. The lack of such is one my reason for holding these in abeyance, but I did work on Furious (1941) just before Christmas.

 

Here is a photo of all four of the models: (from the rear Furious 1917, Glorious 1935, Courageous 1916 and Furious 1941)

 

 

 

The excellent match of the modified Lindberg hull to 1/350 plans of Courageous (1916) is evident in this photo:

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by iang

[Courageous]

@Dave Swindell, thanks for getting back with your searches, much appreciated. Looks like it's going to be a lot of hard graft as I'm not a capital ship builder and I think at this stage, it'll have to be an intelligence gathering exercise. Once I've got over the mountain of launches, subs and destroyers to build, I can give it more attention.

 

@iang, thanks for showing that building a 1/350 Courageous is possible. Just wish I was able to view your images as they're just 'spacer.png' boxes and I can't see how to fix it.

 

Stuart

[iang]

Stuart,

 

Dave Swindell pointed out in another thread that this is because Village Photos security certificate is out of date. You need to add an exception in your browser to view them.

 

Good luck with your 1/700 build. From the available plans/drawings, it would clearly be easier to build a Courageous (1916).  Courageous as converted to a carrier is the least well served of any configuration of the three ships. 

 

IG

Edited January 5, 2020 by iang

[Courageous]

Maybe @Dave Swindell can explain how. I've made sure that my browser allows ALL images, maybe I'm missing something.

1 hour ago, iang said:

Courageous as converted to a carrier is the least well served of any configuration of the three ships. 

Trust me to choose this subject, maybe I should build her as 1916- before venturing towards her conversion.

 

Stuart

[Dave Swindell]

3 minutes ago, Courageous said:

maybe I'm missing something.

It's village photos website, not Britmodeller that's causing the problem.

I'm using Firefox, I'd have to assume that other browsers do something similar.

Right click on what's appearing instead of the image and select View image info

Copy the image URL into the address bar in a new tab in your browser, and Enter, you should get a warning page about the certificates for the website being invalid

You may get the option from this page to add an exception for the particular website from that page

If not, Firefox has a padlock symbol on the address bar, probably with a yellow warning triangle superimposed for that webside

Click on the padlock and it will show a warning about It being an insecure website, there will be an arrow at the right hand end with a drop down menu one option will let you add an exception.

If you've done this correctly, the missing image should appear, and if you go back to the original thread tab and refresh it, all the missing images from that particular host should appear.

[Courageous]

57 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Click on the padlock

Done all that Dave. Images have already been allowed but images are still not showing, at a loss.

 

Stuart

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

Done all that Dave. Images have already been allowed but images are still not showing, at a loss.

A: are you on the village photos site, not Britmodeller?

B: you need to be adding a security exception for the village photo's site, this has nothing to do with allowing images

C : if it's still not working can you post a screenshot of what you see after you've clicked on the padlock at village photos?

[mick b]

I host my pictures in village photos and have had no problem with them being seen here but I too can only see flickering grey boxes on this thread and this has been evident on other people’s posts too so I suggest something they are doing is at fault?

 

Mike

[Courageous]

What ever I have done seems to have fixed it, let's hope it lasts.

On 1/4/2020 at 2:35 PM, iang said:

Here is a photo of all four of the models: (from the rear Furious 1917, Glorious 1935, Courageous 1916 and Furious 1941)

A good collection of 'started' builds, you need to get one re-started.

 

Stuart