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NEI Catalina Colours


leyreynolds

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From what i gather MLD Catalinas were same as Do-24K's i.e. Donkerblauwgrijs (Dark Blue Grey) on top and Wit (milky white) on bottom.

As per this table:

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/colours-of-the-dutch-air-force-part-2/

 

On decal set DP Casper No.72009 "Java sea: from january to march 1942", camo 18 is PBY-5 Catalina Y-38. Instructions say upper colour is dark earth but that is wrong
 

Some time ago i did preview of that set for a now defunct forum and crossposted it on Axis History Forum. There are a couple of addenums for planes depicted lower down in the thtread as AHF doesn't allow edits after certain time:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=205227

 

If you find any mistakes in my article for planes depicted please let me know.

Edited by TISO
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17 hours ago, dalea said:

Note interior colour. Doesn't look like current interpretations of Bronze Breen/Dull Dark Green; Green /Yellow Zinc Chromate to me.

To me that looks like it is the same color as on the undersides named 'milk'

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24 minutes ago, cdk said:

Hello,

for the underside colour search this site for the Jan.2015 topic - Hurricane IIb underside colour - post #13 from Peter Boer. Maybe it is a little helpfull.

Claus

a link is useful

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Note also that many of the Catalina's used in 41-42 had different variations of the demarcations between the dark and light colors, some had the tail underside painted in black.

 

Then there are the national markings; the orange triangles were at some point painted over on the wings on some planes and reduced in size to absolutely tiny on the fuselage only.

 

Bottom line, you need photographic evidence for each individual plane if you are care about accuracy.

 

My color choices were Dark Sea Gray for the top. For the 'milky white' I used Gunze off-white and added a few drops of yellow.

 

I built Y-63 a few years ago, I wasn't able to track down any photos of it so left it up to me and myself to decide what to go for :)

Edited by sroubos
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The question is what colors were they painted at the factory?  That video, though helpful, has a definite color shift. The orange of the insignias is quite pale, the yellow prop tips too dark, and the sky too grey for somewhat sunny weather.  The uppersurface color looks like 36118, so maybe DuPont EDSG?  The undersurface color?  Who knows; maybe a factory mix close to MLK standard?  The color shift, I believe, affects the appearance of the interior color as well.  Just my view....

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The same colours were on Do 24 during 1941-42 (the factory paainting was different), the machine in museum is painted in dark blue hue, not drak grey

Dornier_Do_24_on_Display.jpg

it is very close to US Navy dark blue from three colurs scheme. I know that colours in museums are sometimes biased... But I will go that way

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

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On 1/31/2020 at 8:50 AM, leyreynolds said:

Thanks for the details. Am I correct in thinking they painted over the orange/black rudder markings too?

Yes. The overpainted areas were quite distinctively darker than the original paint, you could clearly make out the outline of the overpainted triangles on the wing.

 

Large triangles on the undersides were left in place. The triangles on the side were replaced by much smaller triangles.

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On 12/27/2019 at 1:48 PM, dalea said:

Doesn't look like current interpretations of Bronze Breen/Dull Dark Green; Green /Yellow Zinc Chromate to me.

This was a very interesting post, especially since I know very little of the colors and markings applied to Dutch military aircraft during that very hectic and dismal time for all allied aircraft in that part of the Pacific. I know just enough about the colors and markings used by the Dutch at that time to be dangerous, but I did discover that 47 PBY-5'S  were purchased by the Dutch from Consolidated San Diego and delivered by air. From looking at the excellent video posted by @occa, I really can't hazard a guess as to what the two exterior colors were, and as for the interior color visible in the waist blisters, taking into account that the video might have been colorized or that the original colors in the film have deteriorated over the years, I am guessing that the color might  possibly be interior green or the MAP equivalent for the grey-green cockpit color used on aircraft bound for Great Britain. I have no idea if the Dutch government stipulated the exterior and interior finish based on their color standards or if Consolidated used the closest USN colors, but maybe one of the BM'ers who are more familiar with WW2 Dutch aircraft might be much more informative. The 'mud and milk' scheme in the video reminded me of the early war USN blue-grey/light gull grey scheme- whatever it is, it sure is pretty.

Mike

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On 1/24/2020 at 2:06 AM, sroubos said:

I built Y-63 a few years ago

I found your great thread the other day, however the photos are no longer available. Any chance you could update some photos here so that we can view your work? 

Cheers and thanks .. Dave 

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Yes of course, I just realized this week that Dropbox has discontinued hosting photos. I'll upload them somewhere else when I'm back home this weekend.

 

This excellent site (the owner sadly passed away a few years ago) shows you the variety of schemes that were applied to the Catalinas.

 

https://www.kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=713:consolidated-pby-55a-catalina-uk&catid=84&lang=en&limitstart=5&Itemid=546

 

Edited by sroubos
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Noted Canadian aviation author, Carl Vincent, has asked me to post this for him.

 

 "I have been following this thread with interest although I have nothing intelligent to add to the various comments. However, just to add a penny to the pictorial pot I attach a photo taken in Ceylon in the late spring of 1942. Despite being an official RCAF photo it is not quite as crisp as one would like despite being is a scan from a first-generation print. The Catalina in the foreground is, judging by the underwing markings, an NEI aircraft. I am somewhat curious about the one directly behind it as the upper wing camouflage appears to be more extensively segmented than the normal RAF pattern. I may have misinterpreted it and, anyway, what do I know? "

 

49485668032_840914e7bf_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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17 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Noted Canadian aviation author, Carl Vincent, has asked me to post this for him.

 

 "I have been following this thread with interest although I have nothing intelligent to add to the various comments. However, just to add a penny to the pictorial pot I attach a photo taken in Ceylon in the late spring of 1942. Despite being an official RCAF photo it is not quite as crisp as one would like despite being is a scan from a first-generation print. The Catalina in the foreground is, judging by the underwing markings, an NEI aircraft. I am somewhat curious about the one directly behind it as the upper wing camouflage appears to be more extensively segmented than the normal RAF pattern. I may have misinterpreted it and, anyway, what do I know? "

 

49485668032_840914e7bf_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

It looks an awful lot like the three color 'callico' (colors unknown) pattern seen on USN PatWing 10 PBY's. I don't know of any that went to Ceylon. But at least one (1219) was taken over by the Netherlands MLD, so maybe others, or parts of, were also.  According to the PBY section of the late Klass Willem Jonker's website, MLD PBY's Y-55, 56, 57 and 64 made it to Koggala, Ceylon, so the foreground aircraft is likely one of those.

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20 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Sure looks like one to me.

 

Indeed. but what is a triangle structure below upper wing tip? Is it something from far background?

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After looking at my blow-up, I wonder if that is the wingtip float of another PBY that is behind the Swordfish.

 

If you look just above the Swordfish's engine, you can see the other wingtip float.

 

 

 

Chris

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@dogsbody the Cat you mentioned is probably on of those aircraft that had the blue-grayish camo with the other color in the pattern as being a lighter gray one..

The colors on the newly delivered ones tends to be more like a non specular sea blue ANA607..

In the past I  have flown the restored one in its blue-gray scheme and depending on the light on that color was sometimes more gray or blue...according to the owners in that time period they told me that it was painted according to the original DuPont specs..

I must say that it (perfectly) matched what I have seen on the color pics in the past

Though I have my doubts for the white ...

I have more info in a book (camouflage en kentekens) but that one is in a big stash of books and is boxed up..

Next week I am able to look it up if needed..

Cheers, Jan

 

ps the last picture is too blue this is not what it looked like as i can recall!

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/operator/CAT Air

Cat_EHV_1995 Catalina   Y-74  C-FHHR


extra info regarding non specular sea blue..

If you cover the lighter shade off then the non specular comes close to the dutch one above..

I regard this aircraft as good reference for the three tone scheme..

img_8405-stitch-900x855.jpg

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