Acrylics and enamels.

[Markh-75]

Hi, is it okay to paint acrylics AND enamels on the same model? Acrylics weren't around when i was last modelling and i havent used them yet but i know i will be for US Navy WW2 models, just wondered if they work okay together? Some of the darker blues for US Navy aircraft can be a problem because Humbrol ceased production of some of them but i have found the best match possible for them in acrylic paint.

[Space Ranger]

Here is my standard response to such questions:

 

This gets complicated. The general rule that I have followed since so-called "acrylics" were introduced is: "acrylic" over enamel over lacquer, but not the other way 'round. However, this depends on what kind of "acrylic" we are talking about, and this is where chemistry enters the picture. Most people use the term "acrylic" to refer to water-miscible paints such as Tamiya's. But not all "acrylics" are equal. A paint is composed of a pigment (color), a vehicle (the carrier liquid), and a binder (the film-forming component of the vehicle that holds the pigment in place after the paint dries. "Acrylic" may refer to the pigment (synthetic as opposed to organic), or the binder (synthetic as opposed to organic, such as linseed oil or a petroleum-based oil solvent). Most hobby "acrylics" are, I believe are those with synthetic pigments and/or binders, usually in a water-miscible (mixable) vehicle. But some "acrylics" are acrylic lacquers (acrylic pigments in a quick dry solvent that contains nitrocellulose resin, another organic substance), and some are acrylic enamels (acrylic pigments in a petroleum-based solvent).

 

Enamel paints use a process that allows polymers in the paint to set and bond together so when the paint hardens, it will not soften again. This is why you can brush additional coats over the original coats once they have cured. In contrast, lacquer paint dries when the solvent has evaporated and can soften over time or dissolved with the application of additional coats. Tamiya "acrylics" are technically enamels, using acrylic pigments which polymerize in an organic solvent — alcohol — which just happens to mix with water.

 

If you are going to use acrylics over enamels or vice versa, I'd suggest you experiment. Put down a coat of one and let it dry/cure for 48 hours. Then apply a coat of the other. Spraying will work better than brushing. Brushing one over the other may cause the underlying coat of paint to lift.

[Markh-75]

Thanks for that; i have one acrylic paint in Tamiya and a couple in Humbrol, i tend to use Humbrol enamels mostly, but it looks like i can paint acrylics OVER the enamel and NOT the other way around. I brush paint my models. I will experiment with them as you suggest, thank you.

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 12/27/2019 at 9:26 AM, Markh-75 said:

Some of the darker blues for US Navy aircraft can be a problem because Humbrol ceased production of some of them but i have found the best match possible for them in acrylic paint.

 

We've got all of them, in enamel, all precisely matched to Elliott's official monogram of US Navy & Marine Corps colours 1940-1949 (not rebadged FS595 or something elses) and made in Scotland at that!

[Procopius]

1 minute ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

We've got all of them, in enamel, all precisely matched to Elliott's official monogram of US Navy & Marine Corps colours 1940-1949 (not rebadged FS595 or something elses) and made in Scotland at that!

I'm not in Scotland, but I made the switch from acrylics to Colourcoats enamels a few years ago and I've never regretted it. The best paint in the world.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 12/27/2019 at 3:26 AM, Markh-75 said:

Hi, is it okay to paint acrylics AND enamels on the same model?

Yes but definitely give it time (1-2 days) between paints. I use them both on my builds. 

[Black Knight]

On 27/12/2019 at 09:26, Markh-75 said:

Hi, is it okay to paint acrylics AND enamels on the same model? Acrylics weren't around when i was last modelling and i havent used them yet but i know i will be for US Navy WW2 models, just wondered if they work okay together? Some of the darker blues for US Navy aircraft can be a problem because Humbrol ceased production of some of them but i have found the best match possible for them in acrylic paint.

Yes. Don't worry about it. Just as long as the under paint is dry

I paint fast and over paint enamel with acrylic, or acrylic with enamel within minutes of it being dry to touch.

I can post up dozens of models painted this way with absolutely no problems at all, but that would bore you

 

The only problems are with Tamiya acrylics which do not like going over Tamiya acrylic too soon

[Markh-75]

2 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

We've got all of them, in enamel, all precisely matched to Elliott's official monogram of US Navy & Marine Corps colours 1940-1949 (not rebadged FS595 or something elses) and made in Scotland at that!

How many are there? and how much are they, i'd like the old Humbrol no 188 if possible!

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Markh-75 said:

How many are there?

WW2 Sea blues?  3, and the post war one

see here, 

Quote

 

and how much are they, i'd like the old Humbrol no 188 if possible!

£2.50 a tin,  minumum 6 cans,  and they have to go by courier.  Detail are in the link   http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/

Personally I avoid oil based paint if I can (after some big DIY jobs) but the general consensus on here is they are the business if you like enamel, but do buy the specific thinners for thinning.  

white spirit is fine for clean up, but it's cheap greasy crud for thinning paint

 

PS I'm not on a retainer for Colourcoats, but I greatly respect the effort put by them in research  (Eg the work of @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies on RN colours, including making up paint samples from the original formulas ) and paint accuracy, and that they post this on here, and accept input and substantiated critiques.    

[Space Ranger]

3 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

We've got all of them, in enamel, all precisely matched to Elliott's official monogram of US Navy & Marine Corps colours 1940-1949 (not rebadged FS595 or something elses) and made in Scotland at that!

Aye, laddie! The best single malt hobby enamel that there is. Just wish they were easy to get here in Her Majesty's Former Colonies.

[dnl42]

I've learned I can use whatever paint I need, in whatever sequence is appropriate for the color and parts in question. I've never suffered paint layer interaction issues; perhaps it's because I paint very light coats?

I do allow enamels to cure for days. I overspray lacquers within minutes of being dry to the touch and mask lacquers with Tamiya tape or Microscale Industries Micro Mask within an hour or two.

 

Primer is always thinned Mr Surfacer 1200 (lacquers)

Base coats are usually Mr Color or Alclad (lacquers), but occasionally Colourcoats or Humbrol (both enamels).

Detail and part colors could be Mr Color, Alclad, Colourcoats, Humbrol, Tamiya (alcohol-based acrylic), The Army Painter Warpaints (water-based acrylic)

Clear coats are now Mr Color (gloss), Microscale Industries Micro Satin, Microscale Industries Micro flat. I used to always use Model Master clear lacquers (gloss, semi-gloss, and flat)