Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Adam Poultney

Very bad news about the Victor

Recommended Posts

Re. the ‘IWM Victor,   XH648’, it’s worth mentioning that this airframe isn’t just another Victor but a unique one.  It’s a K.1, others are K.2s.  I’ve been lucky in that in the past, courtesy of the now much missed ‘Friends of Duxford’, I was able to tour the restoration work ‘up close’.  More recently I’ve been able to view the work from the public area.  The aeroplane was kept outside for years.  Although it was in remarkably good condition there were areas of deterioration (some metal looked more like lace than metal, thanks to corrosion) and some woodwork - yes, seriously, there IS some! - had rotted away, too.  Needless to say, one has to hope that IWM keeps the finished airframe under cover.

 

Isn’t there a Victor cockpit in the RAFM, Hendon?  ISTR seeing one tucked away in a corner of the very dimly lit Bomber Hall there.  Alternatively, there might be scope for IWM Duxford to take on a cockpit section, to let people view it properly - I.e. adequately lit.

 

Well  done,  Adam, for your efforts regarding  XH673.  It would be far preferable if the whole airframe could be preserved.

 

Just thoughts,

 

Jonny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Victor cockpit at Hendon. There was in 2009 when I was last there.

 

victor1.jpg

Edited by Army_Air_Force

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always the Victor. awesome looking aircraft. Hope it can be saved, but, these days you never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even today, almost 70 years after the first flight, it still looks like something straight out of "Flash Gordon" 

 

victor14.jpg

 

victor15.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/01/2020 at 21:51, Army_Air_Force said:

I think similar suggestions were made on the Flypast forum some time ago, about moving Vulcans and particularly the final fate of XH558. The general consensus was that the skills within the RAF to dismantle a large airframe like that, have it moved and re-assembled aren't there any more. That's not to say it can't be done by someone, but that kind of work and movement would be expensive. As also mentioned, it would take more money and more people to look after it where ever it went to. Is there really the will other than hopeful forum comments?

 

It is impossible to dismantle a Vulcan and move it. It has to be cut apart. There are no transport joints. There was pictures of it being done on Vulcans in Camera site which unfortunately no longer exists.   I knew someone who was involved in moving it and he said as much. I also spoke to a gentleman at Hendon a good many years ago who told me the same. He told me to look at the Hendon Vulcan because there is something wrong with it. He pointed out that the undercarriage doors are closed which is because they hide the lumps of steel holding it together. He said although it looks good it is just an empty shell.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, cherry268 said:

It is impossible to dismantle a Vulcan and move it...

Well obviously not impossible, since they did it at RAF Hendon, but it does require cutting and reinforcing during the rebuild. The same is planned for the Trident at NELSAM. It was cut to move it and will require engineering work to reassemble it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Army_Air_Force said:

Well obviously not impossible, since they did it at RAF Hendon, but it does require cutting and reinforcing during the rebuild. The same is planned for the Trident at NELSAM. It was cut to move it and will require engineering work to reassemble it.

To clarify, in my thinking dismantle means take apart where it is suppose to be taken apart and put it back together again to obtain the same structure. Theoretically then you could restore it back to its former state even fly it. Which the Hendon Vulcan you can't.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, cherry268 said:

He said although it looks good it is just an empty shell.  

An empty shell is better than nothing at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plenty of space and young RAF cadets at Cosford..... would be nice to see it moved there and with their rather well known and always sold out Air Show, sure they could take some kind of fundraising/restoration fund angle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

Plenty of space and young RAF cadets at Cosford..... would be nice to see it moved there and with their rather well known and always sold out Air Show, sure they could take some kind of fundraising/restoration fund angle. 

That would be great but Cosford hasn't got much space and already has a Victor K.2, XH672, in fact only one serial number away from XH673. The aircraft would probably be stuck outside and would continue to corrode, and we know how Cosford treats rare v bombers..... XA900 and XA923...... Both scrapped

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true, it might be just too close to what they already have.  My thinking was that in the whole decommisioning of Cosford as an active base, there would be more 'airbase' land that an airframe could be put on... perhaps even a hanger or 2 given over to the Museum. but i admit that may be wishful thinking on my part.



What about this for a different angle - may seem a bit crazy,

But you reckon you could fit a Victor under one of the Butlins Pavilions? 

 

Butlins_Minehead_.jpg


I mean, it would be one heck of a centrepiece, and solves our 'out in the elements corroding issue'

 

Not sure who goes on a weekend away with the kids and wants to see an old V Bomber while they are at it, but.... i guess it would set Butlins apart from Centre Parks/Pontins etc! 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adam Poultney said:

An empty shell is better than nothing at all.

Without a doubt, it still is beautiful looking aircraft 

The point I was trying to make was as far as I know the Victor is moveable by road and rebuildable but the Vulcan isn't. There has been chat about moving XM655 from Wellsbourne as that is under threat but it would never be able to even taxi again. There is a lot of difference between unbolting and cutting. If you look at the Nimrod that went to Cosford the wings were unbolted so reassembly was relatively straight forward. 

You mention the Cosford B1 I think when it was scrapped it was too far gone to save. There was a picture in Flypast magazine and the cockpit was completely trashed from years of water ingress. The article stated that it was beyond repair. If you look at the last pictures of it you will see that there is a axle stand under the rear. If I remember correctly that was because the tail cone was breaking away from the fuselage. I have some pictures of her somewhere in the loft if I come across them I'll put them on site. Unfortunately I think she and the Victor were beyond saving by the time the museum got them from the SOTT but that is my opinion not known fact. Can't really remember what the victor was like but I imagine it was the same. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having road moved plenty of aircraft in and out of Cosford I can tell you it’s not easy. The main road has a low railway bridge, leaving only Long lane down the side of the camp and a tight left turn before the humped railway bridge and right turn into the gates of the museum. Moving something the size of the Victor in that way makes my eyes water. 

 IIRC an RAF station is only allowed (funded?) one official gate guard. There’s obviously not many bad boys and girls on “jankers” to keep it clean. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2019 at 7:58 AM, Jonny said:

It’s fortunate that the IWM at Duxford is restoring their Victor K1, and have been for some time.  I’ve had a couple of ‘tours’ around the airframe and it’s obvious that a great deal of care and attention is being given to preserving / restoring the airframe.
 

I’m not sure when work is expected to be complete but 2 more years rings a bell.  What happens then is up to IWM but one must hope that the aeroplane will be kept under cover.

 

Good point made by Andyf117 above, by tge way.

 

A happy new year to everyone,

 

Jonny

I remeber when she was kept outside and she looked to be in a awful state, especially considering she is the last Mk.1.  Very happy to see how she is coming along and, hopefully, she'll remain indoors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So..... The good news is she's up for grabs wth a price tag of £0, costs of moving the aircraft on the buyer.

Bad news is the offer stands only until the end of February

https://aviationheritageuk.org/news/marhams-victor-xh673-looking-for-a-new-home/?fbclid=IwAR03Fe26mAaxD0YJ0-bvhlHkar_uQ43uWsZeCBioKuudJbZjaV5V4SaGEZQ

Edited by Adam Poultney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,


I am currently trying to organise a campaign to save XH673. I have no experience in trying to organise this sort of move but I am trying to help in any way I can.

 

I have contacted a number of museums to try and find her a new home. There is interest out there, problem is she has been outside for 34 years now and her condition is unknown. Best estimate I’ve had for the cost of moving her is £250000!
 

For more info and updates search “save Handley Page Victor XH673” on Facebook. Any help or advice greatly appreciated!!!

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already been sharing things from that page to many many groups on Facebook and it's gotten quite a bit of attention. 

Good news is it does look like there are certain interested parties, but it will come down to the cost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/raf-marham-offering-free-victor-jet-1-6504843?fbclid=IwAR1ylB7UlzWwcDvuoJVSWiWoTH7j5Cr98SIFmB68BSRxLzXb8i5ClgB0jO0

 

Only giving till the end of Feb to get you offer in, looks like the MOD want it scrapped.

 

Given it has structural issues I cant see anyone wanting to take it on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone thought of tweeting this to James May / Clarkson? i know they have a penchant for British aviation engineering (all of Mays documentaries, and Clarkson has a Harrier in the front garden) - perhaps they could get it moved to the new Test Track as a guard? 

 

Wonder what the structural issues are and how these would affect dismantling/assembly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

 

Wonder what the structural issues are and how these would affect dismantling/assembly?

Quite probably they will, however without seeing results of the survey it is hard to tell.  Even that aside saving it has quite a few hurdles to get past.

 

Cost is likely to be 100K to 250K to dismantle and transport the airframe. Working on a military base requires lifting plans, transport plans, approved contractor, full Health & Safety etc. The there is the problem of a museum having the space, and a pad strong enough to take the airframe. You then have to be able to restore it, treat the corrosion, and do the necessary work to keep the airframe in good order. You would have to prove all this to the RAF before they let you have the airframe as well, there would be such bad press if it was just dumped some where.

 

Working on much smaller aircraft I can say the time and expense to restore them would be dwarfed against what you would need for a victor. 

 

I sadly see this getting scrapped in situ, I can hope this is wrong tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure if its connected but travelling back from Wales to VL I was listening to BFBS (forces radio) and caught the back end of a conversation that Johnny Vegas was picking up a Victor....cant be too many loafin about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, junglierating said:

I am not sure if its connected but travelling back from Wales to VL I was listening to BFBS (forces radio) and caught the back end of a conversation that Johnny Vegas was picking up a Victor....cant be too many loafin about.

Yep that's that Victor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear

@RAF_Marham

I believe you have a Victor jet in need of a new home? We need to talk. Please DM or contact the wonderful

@celebpa

Thanking you in kind anticipation of your cooperation

 

Yep it seems true just cut and pasted this from 

@JohnnyVegasReal 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...