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Savoia Marchetti S.65 Schneider Cup, Karaya 1/72nd


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4 hours ago, Courageous said:

Fantastic work Moa. The art of determination shines through and glad I'm to see that you're not pushing this to one side.

 

Stuart

Thanks Stuart.

Fortunately the molding itself is good, no blobs, little bubbles, little distortion.

Again, what irks me most, is that this could have been a lovely kit, pity the poor research they did.

We pull on.

The Volga Challenging Builds Haulers

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Just found this thread. I’ve a number of the 1/72 Schneider Cup racers that Karaya produced. I’ve built the Supermarine Sea Lion and Gloster III. Both were lovely kits, well moulded with locating pins and some amazing detail ( the sea lions Napier is a peach) both seemed reasonably accurate comparing them to what I could find on the internet. I’ve got this kit and the Shorts White Knight which they also did in 1/48 and the shapes and sizes differ wildly between the too scales.( there is a build of the latter still running on BM ) All I can guess it comes down to whoever created the masters each may have been left to their own devises and would depend on their interest in the actual aircraft how much time they put into the model. For some it may just have been a job others a passion. 

 

I just think you’ve been unlucky in your choice of a first Karaya kit. I’m forewarned and prepared. Thanks for your determination. 

Edited by JamesP
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10 minutes ago, JamesP said:

Just found this thread. I’ve a number of the 1/72 Schneider Cup racers that Karaya produced. I’ve built the Supermarine Sea Lion and Gloster III. Both were lovely kits, well moulded with locating pins and some amazing detail ( the sea lions Napier is a peach) both seemed reasonably accurate comparing them to what I could find on the internet. I’ve got this kit and the Shorts White Knight which they also did in 1/48 and the shapes and sizes differ wildly between the too scales.( there is a build of the latter still running on BM ) All I can guess it comes down to whoever created the masters each may have been left to their own devises and would depend on their interest in the actual aircraft how much time they put into the model. For some it may just have been a job others a passion. 

 

I just think you’ve been unlucky in your choice of a first Karaya kit. I’m forewarned and prepared. Thanks for your determination. 

I am glad to know that other Karaya offers seem to be reliable accuracy-wise.

I am not rivet counter, and don't care about minutia, but this S.65 is a veritable flop in the accuracy department.

For years I have hovered over some of the Karaya releases, most notably the ones you mention. I will purchased one to see how it goes.

Cheers

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On 03/01/2020 at 00:17, Moa said:

And will eventually be inserted in the slots, as they are aligned:

IMG_7802+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

This is lovely modelling work, and a proper sound engineering solution. I can't believe how the thinking was made when the kit maker decided on plain butt joints...

 

Otherwise I really like this machine, an awesome design it is. You squeeze down between two large racing engines, you also have a set of minimal wings (or a set of wheels if it was a car). What more could you possibly need to be a happy man? 😎

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39 minutes ago, Moa said:

I am glad to know that other Karaya offers seem to be reliable accuracy-wise.

I am not rivet counter, and don't care about minutia, but this S.65 is a veritable flop in the accuracy department.

For years I have hovered over some of the Karaya releases, most notably the ones you mention. I will purchased one to see how it goes.

Cheers

Links to my efforts so you can make your own mind up:

 

Supermarine Sea Lion II, I know the tray in which the engine sits is not correct, but I was never able to determine from photos how it was supported on the struts.

 

SeaLionII-37.jpg

https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=5317

 

Gloster IIIA

GlosterIIIA-05.jpg

https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4272

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8 minutes ago, JamesP said:

Links to my efforts so you can make your own mind up:

 

Supermarine Sea Lion II, I know the tray in which the engine sits is not correct, but I was never able to determine from photos how it was supported on the struts.

 

 

 

 

Gloster IIIA

 

 

I like the Supermarine very much, You did a splendid job. I ordered one after you posted your previous message.

I have been collecting references on that one for a long time, may be I will find something regarding the point you mention.

I am not a fan or supporter of military models, though.

Cheers

 

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6 minutes ago, Jo B said:

Great job, Moa. I'm sure this will look fantastic after all the hard work. 

Thanks, one hopes so.

I think that things will develop now more or less normally until we reach the stage of uniting the completed fuselage-cum-tail with the floats via those struts.

The floats as said above can be rigged on the beaching trolley, bit I think I will need to construct a jig to keep the upper part where it should be while connecting those struts (which I will have to provide with pins, or substitute for pinned ones.

We'll see.

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Some resin manufacturers use a much harder resin for stressed parts, or add real metal pins in the molding. Not this case, I am afraid. One of the float struts came with a broken locating pin, so the location is carefully drilled and a metal pin added, and the end that touches the float is drilled as well to insert more metal pins and make for a more secure anchoring. I am almost sure that eventually I will have to replace all those feeble resin pins. We'll see:

IMG_8137+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

IMG_8138+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

Not surprisingly, yet another inaccuracy of this Karaya kit: the V strut that unites boom, tail and float is misplaced in the kit's instructions, and should be where the red lines are, at the end of the float:

IMG_8139+%25281280x979%2529.jpg

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At this point drilling of the many rigging anchoring points is done on wings and floats. 

The rigging on top of the wing of the kit is...yeap, you guessed: inaccurate, as it shouldn't be parallel to the leading and trailing edges, but instead angle backwards a bit. Besides, the two front wires do not converge on the same spot as the kit indecates, but have slightly separated anchoring points. Look at photos.

 

The building of this kit feels exactly like this:

You go on a countryside walk and you are told that following a certain path you are to arrive at a certain place. You are given a map, which doesn't look accurate compared to the photos you have seen of the place, but heck, you decide to trust the tourism agency. As soon as you start to walk, you notice that something is wrong, so you get other maps from kind people along the road. Now, instead of a pleasant walk enjoying the view, you feel you are lost, the map they gave you originally is crap, and has very little to do with the place and the path. So now you are forced to go on for a little stretch, have a look at the other maps, go another stretch, and so forth. 

By then you are not enjoying yourself much, and just want not to get lost, and to arrive home safely.

 

Still, an attractive plane. So we go on. Making some compromises on the way.

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I’ve done a few walks like that.  Maps and reality often differ, a path on the map isn’t there or extra paths not shown on the map are encountered, which is the right one? Etc.

 

AW

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The bottom edges of the floats were not well defined, so a little help with putty was necesary:

IMG_8201+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

IMG_8202+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

The absence of locating holes or even marks on the floats and fuselage for the struts, and the absence of good pins on the latter, made location and rigging a very frustrating and time consuming endeavor.
It seems that instead of working with the kit you had to fight it every step of the way to get to a reasonable point. As commented above I am using the (otherwise inaccurate) beaching trolley to help with alignment:
IMG_8203+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

The fit of the ends of the struts on the parts is dismal, but with plenty superglue and I guess some time spent later with putty may help:

IMG_8204+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

Springy steel wire was used to link the floats among themselves. The rigging styrene piece will be removed prior to gluing the struts to the fuselage belly, of course:

IMG_8205+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

Not what you may call a pleasant build, this one is.

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