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Courageous

HM Submarine Upholder, 1942

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Hi all,

I had the need to build a 'boat' that has been sitting on the start line for a while.

HMS Upholder, a U-Class coastal submarine and was launched in 1940 and operated out of Malta for her 2 year lifespan. She was involved in operations and in one year, she sent over 93,000 GRT to the bottom of the Mediterranean and her Captain was awarded with the VC. Unfortunately, Upholder was sunk on her 25th mission, in April 1942.

 

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A big box that could have fitted 30+ of these subs. Purchased from EAV via Facebook.

 

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Delicate stuff; sail, masts, gun, PE and decals.

 

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Picture...

 

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Started, couldn't help myself. A huge casting plug was attached at the obvious point, along the keel. Unfortunately, the plug hid much of he keel and the forward section came off with the plug. No matter, as my new doctrine with subjects that sail on or under water, are now going onto a sea base, so half the boat isn't going to be seen.

 

Stuart 

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I'm looking forward to your build Stuart...... :thumbsup:

 

When I made mine, I accidentally removed the keel - so I had to replace it with plastic card !!!!

 

FWIW, my build is here: http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/model_submarines_350_scale.html#HMS_Upholder_42

 

I'll be interested in how you make a 'waterline' version and sea base......

 

Regards

 

Ken

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1 hour ago, OutcastJoel said:

That is a fabulous looking boat! I am looking forwards to seeing it progress!

Cheers but being a kit of few parts, it shouldn't take long but cleaning resin is not pleasant.

27 minutes ago, Flankerman said:

I'm looking forward to your build

Cheers Ken, I have seen your build and I nearly done a 'you' with the keel. I will not be making a waterline in the true sense ie cutting it in half but I'll be keeping it as-is but setting it into a deeper base, that's what I done with my British K-Class.

 

Stuart

 

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Nice one Stuart - I'm looking forard to seeing this unfold.

Any ideas re paint scheme yet?

Rob

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15 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Any ideas re paint scheme yet?

As Upholder operated from Malta and sunk in 1942, she would've most probably have been painted a royal blue and Jamie at Sovereign supports this. I have looked at a number of colour photographs of P-Class boats in the Med and they show a disruptive pattern but few photos of Upholder show a solid colour ie. as per box art.

 

Stuart

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The Starling Models resin kit of HMS Tabard has her finished in a Mediteranean scheme of PB10 ..........

 

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Hataka do an excellent water based acrylic match - A521 PB10 RN Deep Blue.... (which I used on my model of HMS Tabard above)....

 

Ken

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Little update.

 

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PE foreplanes added.

 

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Instructions are absolute pants, they show more about where to put the PE and virtually nothing for the resin bits. So, with what few references I have, The sail was fitted and thin plastic rod added to form periscope 'stubs' and a PE rail added on top. Resin deck gun added with it's PE handles.

 

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Their is stuff that should be fitted aft but as this is going onto a sea base, most of it will not be fitted. The only things to be fitted aft are the 'stabilzers' (?) as they are just below the surface and will be seen but they'll be fitted after painting.

 

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All primed up and ready for painting. Instructions and other builds point to an anti-fouling red for below the waterline but builds of other classes of British subs in the Med show an overall colour?  I don't think b/w photos are going to be of any use to confirm this. I need to get hold of the Hataka  blue paint (PB10) and until that arrives, I'll look towards the base.

 

Stuart

 

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A couple of jobs before some paint.

 

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Railings round gun mount fitted, also the aft hydroplane guards. I started painting the fin to see what the blue would look like and then realised that I should be painting it a Royal Blue and not PB10

 

Stuart

 

 

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It looks Fab Stu.

I'm confused re the "Royal Blue" - was this just within the Fin?

She hs very elegant lines

rob

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10 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

I'm confused re the "Royal Blue" - was this just within the Fin?

No, I just wanted to see what the blue looked like before doing the rest, plus the fin has nooks and crannies.

I've chatted to Jamie about the blue used in the Med. He has only one document that refers to Subs in the med and colour. Prior to the introduction of PB10 Blue in 1944, the document states the use of Royal Blue. So display the distinction between early and late boats in the Med, I'll use a royal blue for early and PB10 for late ones. Their are very few colour photos, so the shades of these blues are a bit of guess work as nothing really exists.

 

Stuart

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Howdy,

 

Just to elaborate a little:

 

Quote

 


In December 1939, a memo extract from CB.3016 shared the following insight into the then-current painting practises of the Royal Navy:

"Sir, With reference to your letter No.N.C.388/6801 of 8th November, 1939, I am commanded by My Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to inform you that H.M. Ships on foreign stations are painted as follows (vide C.B.3016 (37), paragraph 261, and C.B.3016 (34), paragraph 179):-

Cruisers and larger vessels - light grey all over.

Destroyers - dark grey hulls and light grey upper works.

Submarines - royal blue on Mediterranean Station, and dark olive colour on China Station.

2. All ships of the Home Fleet, including submarines, are painted Home Fleet grey, and a matt surface paint is employed both at home and on foreign stations.

3. Armed Merchant Cruisers are painted in their normal peacetime colours."

 

 

The above in bold is all I can recall seeing on submarines until PB10 appears in 1944. In our discussions I don't think anyone else in our group has found anything else of any significance either.

 

Due to this gap in the (known) records I'd be reluctant to state for sure that Royal Blue and PB10 are distinct colours - PB10 could just be a numeric formal naming of a legacy paint colour. Equally though, I've seen nothing to actually tie the two together. It's probably the safer assumption that they were distinct until proven to be the same - if that can ever be done.

 

To avoid anachronysms and confusion I personally will avoid talking about PB10 before it appeared in AFO form in 1944, but there isn't really anything to nail down the earlier Royal Blue either.

 

To be honest, more research is needed for PB10. Hataka's is Snyder & Short's PB10 chip. The reason we don't currently have a PB10 is because I'm not convinced about what it should actually look like. I can tell you that from the 1944 AFO PB10 was a blue made from white and ultramarine pigments only and it has a stated light reflectance value of 10%. The Snyder & Short chip is significantly darker than this, and furthermore I have done quite a bit of work on the side with white and ultramarine. It's not possible to match the Snyder & Short chip using only these pigments. Like most of the chips, they are greener and yellower than the pigments give when fresh.

 

I do have a version of PB10 on my desk made only from white and ultramarine, and it measures at 10% LRV by spectrophotometer. It's somewhat lighter and more vibrant than the Snyder and Short chip.

 

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This particular swatch of mine is supposed to be at Richard Dennis' house but I'm terrible at posting things.

 

We both feel that PB10 requires more research including a visit to Stockport and review of more contemporary artwork before trying to draw a conclusion.

 

For now the Snyder & Short chip is still suspect although not ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

It's probably the safer assumption that they were distinct until proven to be the same - if that can ever be done.

This is my of thought too. So, until proven otherwise, I'll use Hatak's PB10, 'cos I have it now and choose a royal blue from the many shades, to get a distinction. I might give Upholder a blast with the PB10 tonight and see how it compares to your swatch and effort, if nothing else it'll be a blue base for the 'royal'.

 

Stuart

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May be a bit controversial but paint is on.

 

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Before the introduction of PB10 in 1944, Med boats were reportedly painted in some shade of Royal Blue and this is as good as any. Their isn't as yet, any evidence to support the use of anti-fouling red below the water line, can you imagine such a colour in the clear waters of the Med, so no red.

 

Stuart

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15 hours ago, Courageous said:

May be a bit controversial but paint is on.  ...

Sure is an eye opener!  When you're only used to shades of grey & black, that blue really stands out.  

 

John

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53 minutes ago, JohnWS said:

blue really stands out.  

Not as much as greys used for 'home waters' apparently. The Med being so clear, subs could be seen down to 150-200 feet when viewed from the air. This royal blue' was still dark before going lighter to PB10 in '44.

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On 1/25/2020 at 8:16 AM, robgizlu said:

that surely is an eye-catcher

Certainly is Rob.

 

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Decals on, all six of them and now settling down with some help from MicroSol, well the 'N99' markings anyway due to some fin detail. Once I'm happy with the decals, it'll get a coat of satin varnish, I may try a matt coat for the deck and see how that looks. Still have to fit the radio mast in the raised position, then rig it but that'll most probably happen after I've got it on its sea base.

 

Stuart

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Blimey it is that small I missed it at the start but I now have new glasses so away we go  :coolio:

 

beefy

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Nice work Stuart. There would almost certainly have been some anti-fouling by the very nature of what the paint is used for. Although I have no evidence as to the colour of the anti-fouling used, the paint can come in a number of colours.

 

Martian 👽

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