fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 In general I wait until I have some visual material to show before I open a new thread, but in this case the beginning is more like a statement of purpose for the new year and the layout of the type background. The Italian Macchi M.39 was a racing seaplane designed specifically to compete on the Schneider Trophy of 1926, which it won, piloted by Mario de Bernardi. Five similar machines were built, three for racing purposes with a Fiat AS.2 engine (the other two flown by Ferrarin and Bacula), and two for training purposes which had a similar but less powerful Fiat engine. They followed the design lines that were found by almost all competitors to work better, namely twin-float braced monoplanes, of extremely refined streamlining that used surface radiators. As I mentioned in previous threads, before even thinking of building, I dedicate time and effort to research, which invariably pays off big time. And this is no exception. To start with, many photos captioned as a Macchi M.39 are actually of the very similar (but not identical) Macchi M.52 and 52R. Therefore the first task is to sort out the photos, helped by three clues: -The M.52s had a much pronounced arrow angle for the wings -The M.52s had slightly larger wing radiators -The M.52s had different motifs on the fuselage and tail. -The M.52 had a slightly different windshield. (Four, four clues -Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition) After studying from photos you promptly realize: -that representations of the M.39 in drawings and 3views are often inaccurate, since they include the graphic motifs that the M.52 had. As the winner of the Schneider, the M.39 had only the number 5 on the sides, no Italian tricolore on the rudder, and no fascia roundel on the fuselage. -that the machine at the Vigna di Vale museum has a different, much later scheme than that wore at the race, and a wooden prop, used only on the practice machines, and not the Reed metal prop used on the race. -That the windshield of the museum machine is again slightly different than the one seen in photos of the winning machine. As an additional achievement, the Macchi M.39 established soon after the Schneider win a new speed record. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 I was gifted some years ago (Thank's David!) this book that has been extremely useful ever since: I found it to be a much more reliable source of information than other known publications. It contains photos and plans of the involved machines, which is helpful given that no kits exist of many of those planes. I have in the past scratched a couple of them: A 10-year old build: and another built from the utterly inadequate (put it very politely) Delta2 kit: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 A superb model of the M.33, another Schneider contender, was already built here by @DMC in a different scale: And his M.39: From which I plan to learn a thing or two: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 For the Schneider I also built this one: And dabbled on a seaplane project: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 As said above, the M.39 only had the number 5 at the moment of the win. (Links to Youtube clips) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsd3elDCvgs Other contestants (next year, 1927): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcrDPiGWIus 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 As you look at images of the M.39 at the Vigna di Valle museum, you will also notice nearby a rather strangely-looking Schneider participant, the Fiat C.29 built for the 1929 race. Whilst the lines of comntemporary racers are carefully blended and the impression they give is of elegant streamlining, the Fiat machine surprises as somewhat bulky and ungainly. It was apparently a fundamentally flawed design, and its issues were never fixed. Therefore, and because there is no kit for it either, I want to scratchbuild it too. I hope I am not overstretching. The C.29 did not actually participate in the race (too ugly maybe?) but since it still exists, and also a sunken one was re-discovered short time ago, I thought I would try. If this second Schneider project, unlike the original, ever comes tu fruition, I will open a separate thread for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Here are images of the M.39 and the C.29 from the San Diego Air and Space Museum Flickr photostream: C.29: M.39 number 5, Bernardi's machine: M.39 number 3, Ferrarin's machine: M.39 number 1, Bacula's machine: 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Likety like I love the Schneider racers can't wait for updates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said: Likety like I love the Schneider racers can't wait for updates. Aren't they delightful? And there are so many! Strange that the industry represented so few of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Moat.. I love this project of yours. Looking forward to your work thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 51 minutes ago, Moa said: Aren't they delightful? And there are so many! Strange that the industry represented so few of them. Have you ever seen the anime film Porco Rosso there are some beautiful Schneider type aircraft in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Just now, AltcarBoB said: Have you ever seen the anime film Porco Rosso there are some beautiful Schneider type aircraft in it. I did build the kit! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said: Have you ever seen the anime film Porco Rosso there are some beautiful Schneider type aircraft in it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Regarding the M.39, naturally -as universally known- all available plans differ in some minor way among them, and all also differ, to some degree...from reality. This is a very common occurrence, and I don't fuss over it too much, also given that when you (or anyone else) prints a plan you are further introducing dimensional changes related to printer, type of file, etc. I start to pay attention when discrepancies are noticeable. In this case it's the floats' length. Study showed that, predictably, several were tried, and the stated numbers in sources may refer to any of those, but the ones on the plans (although there are variations) are generally a tad short compared to actual photos, so I will agree, as usual, with the photos. At this point I already got the floats done (to my relief, because it is a sticky point in this type of scratchbuild) adapting some from the generic Aeroclub vac sheet, of which I still have a few treasured partial sections. The rest will be solved as usual with a carved wood fuselage and styrene sheet flying surfaces, as per the other related scratchbuilds linked above, plus the addition of lengths of Contrail and Strutz airfoiled material. (Don't you love how you can theorize freely, and all goes fantastically well?) One particular detail to have in mind as you build the wing is that the panels were asymmetric, the left wing a bit larger in span to compensate for the brutal torque of the powerful engine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 I just keep going because we are at the in-laws now, surrounded by dogs and babies So it is a matter of psychological survival for me. Thanks all for your comments, as they keep me glued to the computer and away from the British relatives and other biological threats. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) Psychological survival at the annual family rebellion. I found a scale model rock to hide under. Imagine how fast these floatplane racers would be if they didn't have floats slowing them down. Edited December 25, 2019 by busnproplinerfan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 57 minutes ago, busnproplinerfan said: Psychological survival at the annual family rebellion. I found a scale model rock to hide under. Imagine how fast these floatplane racers would be if they didn't have floats slowing them down. At least here the first meal of the series is over. You know, that organic material called British food*. I might even survive this annual ordeal with the help of the BMers. *No, I can't be expelled from Britmodeller, I am too adorable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Moa said: At least here the first meal of the series is over. You know, that organic material called British food*. I might even survive this annual ordeal with the help of the BMers. *No, I can't be expelled from Britmodeller, I am too adorable. Like it's said on The Red Green show, "I'm pulling for ya" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 By the way, if you happen to be looking at the Planes of Fame "replica", do not trust it for anything, it's a notably inaccurate job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 The Schneider cup and the M.39, what’s not to like? I look in on all your builds, Moa, but this one will be of special interest to me. Feliz Navidad, Moa. Dennis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 Yeepee!!!! Santa got the memo!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 10:26 PM, DMC said: Feliz Navidad, Moa. Dennis Feliz Navidad, Dennis! Or, as they say in Hawai'i, Mele Kalikimaka! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 For those interested in some free Schneider background reading, there is a downloadable old NACA report: THE SCHNEIDER TROPHY CONTEST By Alfred Richard Weyl Here: https://ia802601.us.archive.org/4/items/NASA_NTRS_Archive_19930094705/NASA_NTRS_Archive_19930094705.pdf With some plans and photos of racers at the end 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Another old NACA report related to the Schneider Trophy, about the Piaggio Pegna PC7: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930094725.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo B Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 1:30 PM, Moa said: For those interested in some free Schneider background reading, there is a downloadable old NACA report: THE SCHNEIDER TROPHY CONTEST By Alfred Richard Weyl Here: https://ia802601.us.archive.org/4/items/NASA_NTRS_Archive_19930094705/NASA_NTRS_Archive_19930094705.pdf With some plans and photos of racers at the end On 1/3/2020 at 1:46 PM, Moa said: Another old NACA report related to the Schneider Trophy, about the Piaggio Pegna PC7: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930094725.pdf Thanks for these, Moa. Fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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