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Peter Roberts

Tiger Moth variants

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I have been surprised to find there were differences between British built, Canadian built and Australian built Tiger Moths. I had assumed (I know :) ) that they were all built from the same set of plans. Obviously wrong. Also, it seems there were some differences between early and later builds (only British?).

 

With the new Airfix 1/48 scale Tiger Moth due in February 2020 I thought it might be helpful if we had a thread to outline the differences, or rather, the characteristics of each countries build, and perhaps early vs later builds.

 

So, with that in mind, can we outline what those differences/characteristics were? A sort of 'everything you need to know....' for the Tiger Moth.

 

PR

Edited by Peter Roberts

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35 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

So, with that in mind, can we outline what those differences/characteristics were? A sort of 'everything you need to know....' for the Tiger Moth.

 

A chap who likely to know is @John Aero  ...he made masters for a few models as well. 

@Work In Progress maybe able to add some info as well.

37 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

I have been surprised to find there were differences between British built, Canadian built and Australian built Tiger Moths. I had assumed (I know :) ) that they were all built from the same set of plans. Obviously wrong. Also, it seems there were some differences between early and later builds (only British?).

 

You could start the ball rolling with some idea of what you have found out,  from the above comments,  the differences you have spotted so far.

 

I suspect this is likely to be opening the proverbial can of worms though, but in a good way.

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Stuart McKay's Tiger Moth - A Tribute (1988) lists a few changes made by de Havilland Canada:

- undercarriage raked further forward to prevent tipping caused by new mainwheel brakes

- tailwheel to replace the skid

- elevators received a trim tab and mass balances

- redesigned cowling hinged on the centreline to ease access

- steel interplane struts

- cockpit mods to accept a canopy

- cockpit heating tapped off the exhaust

- new instrument layout and rubber instrument panel padding in place of the usual head roll

- skis could be fitted for winter operation*

- footwells (visible as a pair of small fairings on the belly) were installed for the rear seat occupant

- a number were powered by a Menasco Pirate engine in place of the Gipsy Major

 

I'm sure there were more 

 

* I was told many years ago by a family friend, an experienced instructor pilot on Tiger Moths, of breaking a prop in a snow bank.  His ski-equipped machine was blown sideways by a gust after landing and slowing down past where he had rudder control.  Naturally it happened right in front of the Chief Flying Instructor.

Edited by RJP

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If you search you should be able to find a thread wherein Ed Russell and I discussed the important changes on the Australian production.  Please do, I'd rather like to find it myself, but I'm some way away from actually starting one so have no incentive to start looking, just yet.  Stuart Mackay's book on the Tiger Moth is a very good start on just how the aircraft changed during its production runs - as they all do.  First two lessons for any aircraft enthusiast is that there's no such thing as a simple aircraft, nor a constant production run.  This is something that caused considerable problem  with mass production during the war, where car manufacturers assumed that once the jigs were made, nothing changed.  The entire first year of Ford's production of B-24s had to be declared unfit for combat - which was perhaps a gift for the training units, but even then a small number did reach combat zones.

 

Overseas production of lesser aircraft (such as the Tiger) tended to have problems of supply of detail equipment, which thus required changes: in the case of Canada the majority of the modifications were for winterisation.

 

PS  Just tried to find it, which eventually took me to a thread on the AZ kit on (probably) 72nd Modeller which appears to be no longer active.  Swear.  I wonder if Ed kept a copy?  PM to send.

 

PPS.  Found thread https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/72nd_aircraft/new-tiger-moth-1-72-azmodel-t3702-s50.html, but mainly about the AZ kit rather than just Aussie differences.  Useful, though, but there is more to be found.

Edited by Graham Boak
Added PS. Added PPS

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Thanks guys.

 

Troy, the only thing I have found so far is that the Canadian Tigers had a different undercarriage, 'and other changes', and Australian Tigers had nav lights and 'other changes'. I do hope the 'can of worms' doesn't create any angst - wasn't my intent.

 

I know there is info out there, but thought it may be helpful for modellers to have it in one place, even if it is links to resources such as Graham has posted. May even bring some new modellers to Britmodeller (?)

 

Nice list RJP - maybe that covers the Canadian variant?

 

Thank you Graham. I did find a link to a discussion involving Ed, but the link didn't work (probably the one you initially found). Appreciate this new link. :) 

 

PR

Edited by Peter Roberts

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If we start with the basic Tiger Moth conception, it was never actually designed as such. It evolved from a series of  structural modifications of the DH 60M Moth via the basically similar DH 60T using the inverted Gipsy III motor and then the Gipsy Major. 

 

It's too late now tonight, but I'll try and put some further details together tomorrow. The changes from the first recognizable DH 60T Tiger Moth, via the DH 82, DH 82a , Canadian (of which the details in post 3 just need aileron mass balances and radio fits adding) and Australian versions, through to the Dutch modifications to the DH 82a are quite numerous.  There are even more when we add the Queen Bee, Fox Moth, Jackaroo and other civilian modifications

 

John

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

Canadian Tigers had a different undercarriage, 'and other changes'

some more or the same as @RJP  posted.

@Paul J  was posting in the linked thread, and he's a fan of Canadian aviation, so he might add more.  I see John has just posted...  something too look forward too.

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14 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

 First two lessons for any aircraft enthusiast is that there's no such thing as a simple aircraft, nor a constant production run

Both of which I heartily endorse, and add a third:

Unless an aircraft was written off the day it rolled off the production line, the question "what did it look like", even when you're talking about a specific named example, is only meaningful when accompanied by a specific date.

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re Post #7

 

The top edge of the top fuselage frame rail of the Tiger Moth is the aircraft datum. The only version of the Tiger on which the bottom door line goes below the datum is the very early DH.82. These few aircraft had the deeper front cockpit doors, the bottom line of which was some 4" below the top rail datum. These deeper doors first appeared on the DH.60T (Trainer) Moth, so as to enable the occupant of the front cockpit to get out easier from between the cabane struts. The first swept wing Gipsy III engined developed versions were still titled DH.60T (for Tiger) Moth these quickly changed to DH.82 Tiger Moth. 

 

There was previously a small Monoplane the DH.71 Tiger Moth. This and the DH.82 have nothing in common except the second use of the name.

 

The Canadian DH.82c has a sliding canopy. The lower metal edges of which extend below the datum as they cover the canopy slide rails which are mounted on the fuselage sides. This gives the impression that the cockpit sides are deeper, but the hard edge of the cockpit side is still the fuselage top frame rail.

 

More anon... Lucy spaniel demands a walk.

 

John

 

 

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