Adam Poultney Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, smackers said: Another alternate history could be that the British re-engined the Spitfire for tests and found it was superior to the Merlin so reverse engineered and produced the DB engine in large numbers equipping many aircraft. Didn't think of that one. Nice idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 10:17 AM, gingerbob said: I think the original engine change was done as a way to evaluate (or compare) the Spitfire's cooling system- sort of an "all things being equal" test. I've got a copy of the German test report, but my German isn't good enough to read it. AFAIR, the idea was to see if the Spitfire would benefit from the Daimler, i.e. if the Daimler was superior to the Merlin. An engineer noticed that the firewall was the same size as the Me110 firewall, so the conversion was feasible. In any case the Spitfire was almost mythical in German eyes and re-engine it was a way of finding out secrets. Funny fact: The Messerspit was very popular among german pilots and flown a great deal. /Finn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The Dutch requested a licene to build Spitfires. Say it was granted and they tooled for production and were about to about to start/had just started when the country was over-run. The Germans now have a production line for Spitfires. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agadbois Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 On 12/22/2019 at 5:19 AM, Adam Poultney said: The French licence is a possibility then for a what-if. I like that. The other way of approaching this would be perhaps a small number being converted as they were captured. I believe this would have been quite possible, recycling captured examples after the defeat in France and crash landed examples later. Perhaps a small series of 50 aircraft? I imagine Finland flying some against the Soviets, and other nations allied with Germany. Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfman Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 A few crash landed Spitfires are refurbished and re-engined and supplied to a special duties unit (maybe KG 200) and used on clandestine recon missions, maybe with British markings ? Wulfman ( might do that myself !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hi I cant remember which one, but in one of the ‘spitfire at war ‘ books is a photo/s of spitfires left on Kos ? in 1943 which the germans captured seem to recall it was quite a few spitfires think they were Mk V’s cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 A Jalanese aero manufacturer -I think Mitsubishi but I may be wrong- purchased a licence to produce Spitfires in the late 1930s. Now there is a what-if for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvyn hiscock Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Remember the 109 needed far fewer hours to build than the Spitfire. Also, the DB engine was designed to run on 87 octane fuel rather than 100, And was larger capacity, at 36 litres, so would have run better than a merlin on lower octane. All things were not equal. It is still a great ’what if’ and in my view the messerspit looks less clunky than a Buchon, not that I don’t love them both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, brewerjerry said: Hi I cant remember which one, but in one of the ‘spitfire at war ‘ books is a photo/s of spitfires left on Kos ? in 1943 which the germans captured seem to recall it was quite a few spitfires think they were Mk V’s 2 photos on page 67 of Spitfire At War 3. From the captions the aircraft had belonged to 7 SAAF and 74 Sqs, which had deployed to Kos. Some were damaged in air attacks and others prevented from taking off owing to runway cratering but "it is believed that at least 6 Spitfires were captured intact". They look like Spitfire Vc Trops. One, coded "K" but serial not visible, is pictured having its engine run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 12/26/2019 at 9:45 AM, FinnAndersen said: AFAIR, the idea was to see if the Spitfire would benefit from the Daimler, i.e. if the Daimler was superior to the Merlin. An engineer noticed that the firewall was the same size as the Me110 firewall, so the conversion was feasible. In any case the Spitfire was almost mythical in German eyes and re-engine it was a way of finding out secrets. Funny fact: The Messerspit was very popular among german pilots and flown a great deal. /Finn Obligatory reading for anybody who complains that model-scale conversions are difficult...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 4:08 AM, Seahawk said: 2 photos on page 67 of Spitfire At War 3. From the captions the aircraft had belonged to 7 SAAF and 74 Sqs, which had deployed to Kos. Some were damaged in air attacks and others prevented from taking off owing to runway cratering but "it is believed that at least 6 Spitfires were captured intact". They look like Spitfire Vc Trops. One, coded "K" but serial not visible, is pictured having its engine run. Hi often wonder what happened to them shipped to germany ? or being Mk V not worth it ? cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torqueofthedevil Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 12:12 AM, agadbois said: I believe this would have been quite possible, recycling captured examples after the defeat in France and crash landed examples later. Perhaps a small series of 50 aircraft? I imagine Finland flying some against the Soviets, and other nations allied with Germany. Alain How many Spitfires were captured when France fell? I'm only aware of a single specimen. And if you're going to go to the great lengths required to reverse engineer an entire aircraft, you wouldn't then limit yourself to a production run of a few dozen! And while the Germans did subsequently capture plenty of Spitfires, they never (to my knowledge) got their hands on 'modern' variants - as brewerjerry suggests in the post above, Spitfire Vs in autumn 1943 were well into obsolesence and therefore not much use to the Germans. By that time, the RAF was testing the Mk XIV, while the Germans were well advanced with the Fw 190D and had already flown the Me 262 on jet power and a tricycle undercarriage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Let’s not forget that the Yugoslavs re engined a Hurricane with a DB601. Apparently, it handled better. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/omega-models-72163-zmaj-hawker-hurricane-mki-with-db-601-engine--138925# Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelholic Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Perhaps Germany managed to cobble together an extended squadron's worth of captured/rebuilt Spits and started a Top Gun style school somewhere in Bavaria? Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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