Iliad Decals just shattered.......

[BlueNosers352nd]

Getting back into the hobby recently........but I just went to apply decals to my 1/48 Stearman and went to slide the first two decals off and they just shattered.

 

Doing this bird off the sheet, put the 73's in mildly warm water, like I always did in the past.  Let them set for a few then went to slide them off and BAM! 

 

Was it the warm water? 

 

Iliad decals just like to do that? 

 

Gonna try another decal and see what happens.  Fortunately I mistakenly bought a second set so I have that part again.

 

[dnl42]

While I do have Illiad decals in the stash--for an AT-6 as it happens--I cannot yet provide any direct experience.

 

When you wrote "for a few", did you mean minutes? That may have been too long. I have better luck with making sure it's thoroughly wet, taking it out of the water, and then letting it sit until it moves freely. Some decal brands are pretty adamant about a 10s or so soak. Perhaps that may help?

 

If you continue to see shattering, try Microscale Industries Micro Liquid Decal Film or perhaps a clearcoat like Tamiya Clear X-22.

Edited December 14, 2019 by dnl42

[BlueNosers352nd]

No, not minutes.  Wait, like you said, maybe 10 secs, check, wait a little longer, etc.  First 73 shattered instantly.  Second 73 actually slid a bit then shattered.  Tried the two stars/bars and US NAVY in cold water and same thing.

I have both the Film and X-22, so I will give those a try.

 

 

[stevehnz]

X2 on the MSI Liquid decal film, even a couple of coats won't go astray, it dries very flexible.

It may be worth bringing this to the attention of @bobmig from Iliad Design, he has a Manufacturers page here & I've not heard of Iliad decals behaving like this, I've some in stock & one in transit.

Steve.

Edited December 15, 2019 by stevehnz

[BlueNosers352nd]

15 hours ago, stevehnz said:

X2 on the MSI Liquid decal film, even a couple of coats won't go astray, it dries very flexible.

It may be worth bringing this to the attention of @bobmig from Iliad Design, he has a Manufacturers page here & I've not heard of Iliad decals behaving like this, I've some in stock & one in transit.

Steve.

Well they need more than Decal Film put over them.  Gotten a few to cooperate, but many still crack apart.  They do have to be soaked/sit a lot longer than I remember decals needing in years past.  The glue takes for ever to soften enough to release.  I've gotten a few off the backing paper onto the plane, start tweaking them and bam.....I got a mess.  2 sets down the toilet.   Stars n Bars I can pull from somewhere else, but like the 73 I only got one to work.

 

Gonna drop bobmig a message and get some input on the issue. 

 

Don't know if it's a bad batch or what.  Concerns me because I have a Spitfire set too.

 

Grrrr

Edited December 15, 2019 by Mike
Removing bad language

[Mike]

12 minutes ago, BlueNosers352nd said:

Gonna drop bobmig a message and get some input on the issue. 

That's your best bet.  It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong, but please refrain from venting your frustration with bad language.  I've removed the offending/offensive article and would remind you that we're a family friendly forum

[bobmig]

Hi, BlueNosers352nd. Sorry you had a problem with the decals. Before replying I wanted to test some of them myself. I took two of the Stearman sheets and a Stearman fuselage half from an unbuilt kit. I cut out the 73 from each sheet, immersed it in tepid water and then held it above the water's surface for about 30-35 seconds. I wet the fuselage and carefully slid the decal off the backing sheet onto the plastic, and blotted it with a tissue. Now, just because I had no problem I'm not saying that you didn't. Yes, the carrier film on these is VERY thin. And there may very well have been part of the print run which didn't receive sufficient clear varnish. (As it's transparent, that's something that's impossible to see while it's happening, unlike a colour which would be obvious.) These were done by a printer I no longer use. While he produced extremely nice work... good colours, thin decals,  and fine register... he seems to have had problems on the business end of things. In any event, my decals are now being printed by Microscale. All this aside, I still feel bad about your decal problems. So, if you'll tell me which couple of sheets you'd be interested in, I'll send them to you gratis. Hope that will help you feel better.

Bob Migliardi

[BlueNosers352nd]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

That's your best bet.  It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong, but please refrain from venting your frustration with bad language.  I've removed the offending/offensive article and would remind you that we're a family friendly forum

My apologies!

 

15 minutes ago, bobmig said:

Hi, BlueNosers352nd. Sorry you had a problem with the decals. Before replying I wanted to test some of them myself. I took two of the Stearman sheets and a Stearman fuselage half from an unbuilt kit. I cut out the 73 from each sheet, immersed it in tepid water and then held it above the water's surface for about 30-35 seconds. I wet the fuselage and carefully slid the decal off the backing sheet onto the plastic, and blotted it with a tissue. Now, just because I had no problem I'm not saying that you didn't. Yes, the carrier film on these is VERY thin. And there may very well have been part of the print run which didn't receive sufficient clear varnish. (As it's transparent, that's something that's impossible to see while it's happening, unlike a colour which would be obvious.) These were done by a printer I no longer use. While he produced extremely nice work... good colours, thin decals,  and fine register... he seems to have had problems on the business end of things. In any event, my decals are now being printed by Microscale. All this aside, I still feel bad about your decal problems. So, if you'll tell me which couple of sheets you'd be interested in, I'll send them to you gratis. Hope that will help you feel better.

Bob Migliardi

Thank you for the response.  Hopefully I didn't come across to hard.  I'm not upset or anything, just frustrated and the older I get the smaller my patience (with anything)....so it may have sounded to harsh.  Basically if I could finish this one I'd be cool.  Sent you a PM.

 

I did similar, dipped in slightly warm water.  Sat it on my self healing pad, tested.  Couple tries I dipped again.

 

Thanks again!

Edited December 15, 2019 by BlueNosers352nd
add some stuff

[BlueNosers352nd]

Ok, I am really just dumbfounded at this point.  Bob sent me a new sheet (haven't tried that one yet) plus the two sheets he used the "73" from (his pic above).  So immediately went to work applying the one 73 I needed.  Slid off the backing paper onto the plane, went to adjust and it split into 3 pieces.  Crud!  Went to the other sheet Bob used, tried the other 73 and went to slide it off the backing paper and 3 split.

 

 

Reluctant to ruin both 73's on the 5th sheet, I just walked away for the night.

 

My procedure, which I have always done (but not in several years since I haven't been building)...

1. Cut out decal and dip in luke warm water for few seconds.
2. Set decal aside to let it soften/absorb/whatever it does.  (Not for minutes and minutes though)
3. Test if it slides with paint brush.  (sometimes I'll re-dip a quick second if it doesn't move and let sit a little longer)
4. Wet surface of model with either water or MicroSet.
5. Slide decal off onto model.
6. Adjust position
7. Come back later and hit it with MicroSol

Obviously Bob had success, so why they split on me using the other 73 from the same sheets he used is beyond me.  Apparently I am just a gomer when it comes to decaling anymore.

 

Didn't do a decal film over top as Bob had success.  Did it on my first two sheets, with minimal success, so apparently it's all just me.

 

BlueNoser the hopeless decaler!

[stevehnz]

Sounds like a coat of Microscale Liquid Decal film before you go any further would be a good move.

Steve.

[Markh-75]

I have had decals fragment on older and lesser quality kits, and went online and bought a sheet of stars and bars just in case it happens again. its mainly older decals for lesser quality kits this has happened with. Especially older kits that havent been looked after very well, left in a loft with stuff piled on top (anyone who worked in a warehouse will know that you stay things by weight, than size); i will not buy a kit that has a poor box, they're not worth it and arrive with broken parts that cant be fixed. I dont mind a challenge but i have bought the odd kit that cannot be built and kept it for spares.

 

I always fit the underwing decals first, and then the over wing ones and possibly the tail decals too; i then leave them a few hours and then paint on the Humbrol Mattcote (after giving it a right good shake) i leave the bottle upside down overnight and then shake it well before i use it, the gunk in the bottle IS the mattcote, the rest is the carrying oil, both have to be integrated together well. This protects the decals. I leave it overnight to dry and only the following day will i apply the fuselage decals; because there is no danger of fetching off the others once Mattcote has been applied, while i fit the second lot and faff about getting them in place.

Some decals curl the wrong way and then sink! If its a long one i make sure there is some paper to hold onto and i curl it long-ways around  a paintbrush, this 'encourages' the decal to curl up the right way. i also will cut long decals a bit shorter, makes them easier to handle.

 

If i'm applying them to a matt surface i will paint glosscote or satincote on the area where the decals go and let it dry a good while before i do the decals; this is because decals cant cure properly on a matt surface and (i know i've said it before) its the same reason that a sucker will only stick to a shiny surface. Air gets under the decal and makes the edges 'silver' and they wont stick properly no matter what special adhesive/decal treatment is used. Its about making the area suitable to apply decals onto. You can always go and mattcote the model after the decals and they will go matt even if you used satin or gloss cote before fitting the decals.

 

TBH decals are my least enjoyed part of a kit, i dont know what it is; a combination of my big ol' clumsy hands and then they start to shake at times; maybe i need to relax more before i do the decals, my wife says i almost turn blue when i do them (makes a change from going green and ripping my clothes! lol), i hold my breath so long at times! Even though they can be the crowning glory of a kit i find them least enjoyable to do. Maybe its just been a long time since i did models and i need to persevere a bit more. If anyone has any ideas (other than an oxygen mask) i'd be happy to know.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Markh-75

[lasermonkey]

IMO, you're not doing anything wrong and those decals are faulty. Again. They just shouldn't break like that given reasonable handling. Hopefully you'll have enough spare to complete your model, but I would definitely recommend a coat or two of Liquid Decal Film.

 

I shall bear this in mind when I come to use my Illiad Spitfire decals.

[Markh-75]

I have to say Thank You to everyone who has taken an interest in this post; of late my confidence in applying decals hasn't been very good; i have taken on board a few ideas as a result of the replies to this post, cheers guys! (my apologies, i'm not trying to hijack your post, just showing gratitude for ideas expressed in it).

You're NOT a hopeless decaller; i'm not too comfortable myself but the ideas in here have given me a better insight on ways to achieve good results. Only way you will be good with decals is by keeping trying, and i know that it can depend on the quality of the decals to be applied. While i'm not as confident as i'd like to be i know it will take time to build confidence, but i rather like the 'crowning glory' of decals! Once they're on the model and a coat of varnish of your choice, the model is 'Finished'; i like that and then i think, "what will i build now"? lol

I have had decals that fragmented myself but more so on lesser quality kits and on older kits; the internet is a fantastic means of sourcing alternative decals and i have bought them and other spare parts numerous times. The most recent was when i bought better wheels for the Helldiver (the ones that came in the kit are merely flat discs, no detail at all, and i like well presented undercarriage on a kit.

Keep on keeping on, you'll be fine.👍