WW1 vehicle tyre colour

[Faraway]

I know that tyres on WW1 vehicles were not black, but a shade of grey. So which Tamiya grey is best to use, does anyone know ?

[rayprit]

1 hour ago, Faraway said:

I know that tyres on WW1 vehicles were not black, but a shade of grey. So which Tamiya grey is best to use, does anyone know ?

Theres a search box for Britmodeller, top right of this page - have you tried it?  I did and loads and loads of topics came up about tyre colours - heres just one of them

 

 

 

 

[Faraway]

I didn’t know that, I’ll try it. Many thanks 

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, Faraway said:

I know that tyres on WW1 vehicles were not black, but a shade of grey. So which Tamiya grey is best to use, does anyone know ?

Depends on the vehicle. 

Hard rubber solid tyres were vulcanised to the wheel rim and could range from a dark grey to black. Balloon tyres ranged from almost pure white to a mid-grey. 

There is no 'right' or 'correct' grey for the tyres. Just use any plain light grey

 

Although you ask for Tamiya I generally use Humbrol 27 grey for pre-1920s tyres

 

 

[Yorkshire man]

Tamiya XF85 Rubber black.

[bhouse]

@Black Knight seems to have understood the op's question and given an informative answer. It's certainly helped me - so thank you!

[Kingsman]

The question of tyre colour in WW1 is troublesome.  Black pneumatic tyres had been around since 1910 in the USA, courtesy of BF Goodrich adding carbon black to the rubber in addition to the earlier zinc oxide that gave the white-grey colour.  Cotton fabric bias-ply reinforcement appeared the same year.  Both were significant and enduring innovations in the development of motor vehicles.  But it isn't clear whether any European or British tyre companies were using carbon black by 1914 or even by 1918. 

 

Period photos suggest from colour contrast that the majority of pneumatic tyres in WW1 were still grey, but that solid tyres were black.  Understandable as the carbon black increased the tensile strength 10-12 times, a considerable advantage for solid tyres.  However there are some photos which suggest that some black pneumatic tyres were around in Europe, possibly imported from the USA.  Making carbon black required oil, which was in short supply and increasing demand - notwithstanding the beneficial effect of increasing tyre life and reducing the number needed overall.  But Britain controlled almost half the world's rubber production at the time and the principal rubber trading market was in London so rubber supply was not an issue.  We could be more liberal with rubber than with oil.

 

The tread areas did get dirty - obviously - and often appear to have a white-wall effect.  Tread patterns had been invented in about 1904 IIRC.  The ones most commonly seen on British vehicles in WW1 are the lateral indents at intervals across the width of the tyre and a small-block pattern of squares somewhat like graph paper with blocks about half an inch square and narrow slots between.  No one does those in kit form or as after-market: hard to mould in any material.  Early in WW1 it was thought that handling was improved by having dissimilar tread patterns on the front wheels.

 

Anecdotally, carbon black was happened-upon through car owners remarking that sooty tyres seemed to last longer.  Whitewalls came about accidentally by tyre companies cost-cutting and using carbon black only in the tread section.  Then they became fashionable.

 

So is there an answer?  Sort of.  The colour in the photo above seems about right for the much more common zinc-oxide reinforced pneumatic tyres.  Rubber Black would be about right for solid tyres or the much rarer new-fangled carbon-reinforced pneumatic tyres.  Germany could get neither rubber nor oil in any quantity after 1914 and ended up running iron tyres.  It is highly likely that US-built vehicles would have had black tyres, such as the ICM Ford T ambulance.  UK-built Fords most probably still had grey.

[Faraway]

@Das Abteilung what an interesting and informative answer. Very many thanks. My thanks to all of you who contributed.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Faraway

[Kingsman]

At the risk of boring you all further, Germany was secretly buying rubber on the London market through "neutral" Dutch intermediaries until it was discovered and stopped.  By then they had built up about a year's supply stock.  The first synthetic rubber was actually patented in Germany in 1909 and Continental made synthetic rubber tyres from 1912 and during WW1.  Photo contrast suggests that they were grey too.  But a whole heap of circumstances (including most of the scientists involved being conscripted to fight!) prevented them ever making enough and many of their trucks ran on iron-rimmed cart wheels later in the war.

 

During WW2 almost all US vehicle tyres were made of synthetic rubber - courtesy another BF Goodrich invention - as Japan over-ran the majority of world production sources of natural rubber.  By 1944 the US had created synthetic rubber prpoduction capacity equivalent to twice the 1939 world natural rubber production capacity!  I guess the same applied in the UK and we know that Germany depended almost entirely on sythetic rubber, the plants for which were high on the Allied bombing target list.

[Faraway]

@Das Abteilungfascinating. How do you know all this ?

[s.e.charles]

someone might find this helpful (right column):  https://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page9.html

 

actually, snoop around - great website for detailing!

[Kingsman]

On 12/14/2019 at 8:19 PM, Faraway said:

How do you know all this ?

All culled from sources on the web about tyres and synthetic rubber with a bit of digging around.  I was planning a couple of WW1 wheeled vehicles and so thought I'd better find out for myself.  This question of tyre colour has come up a number of times on this and other forums.  Noting the aircraft model link above, I imagine the same applies to WW1 aviation tyres too.

 

I was at Bovington the other day and noticed that the solid tyres on their Peerless armoured car - apparently original or period - are very black.

[Faraway]

40 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

All culled from sources on the web about tyres and synthetic rubber with a bit of digging around.  I was planning a couple of WW1 wheeled vehicles and so thought I'd better find out for myself.  This question of tyre colour has come up a number of times on this and other forums.  Noting the aircraft model link above, I imagine the same applies to WW1 aviation tyres too.

 

I was at Bovington the other day and noticed that the solid tyres on their Peerless armoured car - apparently original or period - are very black.

Black indeed, I had a look at it online. But I’ve done mine now, and only this morning put them on the axles. So grey they will stay. Still got the CSM Lanchester to work on, so maybe it’ll get black tyres.

[dnl42]

Vallejo Panzer Aces has a Light Rubber color that I like to use for these subjects if I don't have any photographic evidence of dark rubber. I this as a default choice with the assumption that carbon black would be used where long life or a harsh environment was a critical requirement.

 

For later subjects, I like Mr Color Tire Black (C137), also Colourcoats Tyre Black (C06)

[rayprit]

43 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

I was at Bovington the other day and noticed that the solid tyres on their Peerless armoured car - apparently original or period - are very black

When I was in army in the mid 60s - mid 70s besides going to troop/Squadron stores for the normal paint which came in 25 litre drums; for bronze green, which we added petrol to -  to make it go further; we also used to draw on Tyre Black, for inspections it used to make the vehicles really stand out.  Centurion road wheels, the rubber outer rims always got the treatment as did Land Rovers and Bedfords……..When I was put in charge of a troop of Stalwarts, (all brand new and delivered with only delivery mileage on them)Tyre Black was a standard issue,  always carried a tin as the Stalwart I used  was often used in public relations and to be seen in attendance at Bundeswehr open days throughout Germany, in fact the tyres on the Stalwarts I used - all the lettering was picked out as can be seen from many of my photos stolen from various web sites and posted on the internet.  I imagine that the Tank museum has the same procedure of tyre blacking all there vehicles from the same tin.  Never take museum colours as gospital.  A lot of leeway can be seen throughout any museum worldwide.

Through habit, when I left the army I continued to tyre black my cars tyres, especially when an MOT was due.  Tyre Black was available from Halfords at one time in small tins, I still have some left, I see Halfords no longer sell it, its now generally air sprays or wipe on type wax.

 

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

7 hours ago, Faraway said:

Still got the CSM Lanchester to work on, so maybe it’ll get black tyres.

My amateur research suggests grey tyres for Lanchesters on the Western Front in 1914-15.  That is what I was goiing to do if I hadn't shelved my Lanchester

project. 

 

Half the Lanchesters were then sold to Russia.  The remaining half later went to Russia with the Royal Naval Air Service Armoured Car Expeditionary Force (!!!) [RNAS ACEF] under Commander Locker-Lampson and had many adventures all over that front as far West as Romania vs the Austrians and as far South as Armenia vs the Turks.  By coincidence, their depot (such as it was) was at Kursk.........  All the cars were left behind when ACEF pulled out in haste after the Revolution.  I imagine that ACEF took a goodly supply of spare tyres with them.  I also imagine that replacements from the UK via Murmansk were unreliable or non-existent.  So the likelihood is that they came to rely on Russian tyres.  Again, contrast in photos says grey.

 

7 hours ago, rayprit said:

I imagine that the Tank museum has the same procedure of tyre blacking all there vehicles from the same tin.  Never take museum colours as gospital.  A lot of leeway can be seen throughout any museum worldwide.

In general, yes.  However the tyres on the Bovington Peerless have chunks missing and they are the same black all the way through.  At least as far as the missing chunks go.  But that doesn't mean that these have not also been painted-over at some time in the past 100 or so years.  Nowadays they would not apply anything which might have a damaging effect.  None of their other wheeled vehicles that I saw showed evidence of tyre painting but some have new tyres.  The jury seems to be out on the effect of tyre paint or dressing with little clear evidence either way.  Sidewall cracking can have many causes.  But using solvent-based products seems unwise and products that are still available are mostly water-based.

[rayprit]

13 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

But using solvent-based products seems unwise and products that are still available are mostly water-based.

I agree with all you say.........….Back in the 70s solvent abuse, was non existent, anything went, from using a petrol/ kero mix for cleaning vehicles with cotton waste, with bare hands, I remember even using a spray gun attached to the tyre inflator on a Bedford for providing air to the gun.  Quite happily spray paint a B vehicle and in some cases Centurion Tanks using this method...……...no need for masks as they didn't exist.  all spray painting was done when desired by the driver, if he so desired  to his own vehicle......no base workshops involved, just done on base...…...there was the paint, solvent and spray gun in the stores for all to use

[McNab]

for white rubber tyres, I have used Tamiya's Deck Tan with great results. Especially when dirtied after.