What model of Oxford ?

[Mancunian airman]

Just learned that an Oxford aircraft was used as the 'hack' and had the serial N4795.

 

Can anybody tell me what Mk. this was and possible a paint/camo scheme that would have been appropriate for 1944 ?

 

I was kinda lead to believe that such aircraft were 'hand me downs' and it could possibly have had a yellow underside as  possibly used previously as a trainer aircraft.

Is that likely as late as '44 ??

many thanks  

Ian

[Work In Progress]

Oxford II built by de Havilland at the Hatfield factory.

When you say "the hack" what unit are you talking about?

Edited December 11, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Mancunian airman]

Used by a bomber squadron Station Commander Group Captain

[Work In Progress]

Just now, Mancunian airman said:

Used by a bomber squadron Station Commander Group Captain

Go one then, if you must make me ask: which one?

[Mancunian airman]

RAF Binbrook

 

[Work In Progress]

One of the 70 Oxford II, so no turret. This is no more than informed speculation but in the absence of any contradictory documentation I would start from the basis of the standard low-demarcation DE/DG camo over yellow. It was very much a hand-me-down and built as a radio/nav trainer. By 1944 probably had the fuselage roundels, underwing roundels and fin flashes redone to the later C/C1 types. Overwing roundels untouched. 

 

It's a strictly non-combatant aircraft operating only in the UK where its main hazard is being shot at by friendlies, so there is really no benefit in losing the yellow undersides, in fact it would be a bad idea operationally, as well as an unnecessary expense and inconvenience, to repaint it. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Mancunian airman]

That sounds like good advice. many thanks

I take it that the old Novo Mk. II trainer would pass as a kit to use ??

[Work In Progress]

Yes, if you have one already. It's obviouisly an elderly kit but it's not irredeemable by any means. This review by Carmel Attard has some helpful tips on it. 

https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/gb/attardfoxford.htm

 

However I can remember when these were being given away at a fiver, but the supply seems to have dried up now and the few that I can spot online are not prices around the £30 mark, which makes them expensive propositions. That being the case, if you need to buy one, the more modern Admiral / AZ kit is in many ways preferable - though again, those have now also become quite hard to find.

 

[Mark Harmsworth]

Kingkit has a few Novo Oxford II kits at £19.99

https://www.kingkit.co.uk/product/novo-aircraft-1-72-f336-airspeed-oxford-mkii-trainer

 

[Work In Progress]

Yes, sorry, that was one of the places I found them too, I meant to say £20, but mis-typed. I guess that reflects a collector market dominating a builder market - which always surprises me for Novo boxings, though not for nice Frog boxings in good condition. The AZ ones were available at around £13-14 when you could still get them new, and that's much better value.

[Ossington 2]

According to Air-Britain's N1000 to N9999, it served first at 15 FTS, then to 14 FTS/ 16 PFTS/RAFC/Binbrook/Faldingworth/Binbrook/Faldingworth before being Struck Off Charge 18-3-49. Like the reply above, I'd go for DG/DE over Yellow.  

[Ossington 2]

Oh, Binbrook Station Flight was allocated CG as a code, though there is no record of it being used. (Michael J.F. Bowyer and John D.R. Rawlings's book)

[Graham Boak]

For a much fuller listing of RAF (and other) codes see Combat Codes, by Vic Flintham and Andrew Thomas.  However in this case it has no other direct information bar that the use belongs to 1945, so the Oxford might not have been around Binbrook at this time anyway.  Postwar use may have required different codes - for example Station Flight Cranwell included Oxford HN839 FKS-A.  However many other Station Flights don't seem to have been recorded (or carried?) other than a few in Technical Training Command, and some who carried codes similar in format to the wartime system.  CG is not recorded in postwar use, but CS was SF Upwood in 1945 and later, so it does seem likely (or at least quite possible) that SF Binbrook did indeed carry CG codes postwar.   Depending upon the time, however, it also may well have been in Aluminium, with or without Yellow training stripes.

[Ossington 2]

I don't suppose dates will matter much to you, but it arrived at Binbrook on 24/10/43 and departed for Faldingworth 23/8/45, but back again 6/9/45. Left again 7/3/46. (Air-Britain The Oxford, Consul & Envoy File)  

[Mike Starmer]

Be aware that the Frog/Novo kit lacks the bomb bay.  The kit was based on a postwar machine.  Not seen the other kits so cannot comment on those.  They were mostly used as pilot trainers, as that took some tricky handling at times.  For this reason that were employed by B.A.T. flights, doped black underneath rather than the regulation yellow.  Ansons were used by A.N.S. for radio /navigation as they were more sedately.  Or so I understood from chaps who flew them.  

[MigModeller]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:11 PM, Mike Starmer said:

Be aware that the Frog/Novo kit lacks the bomb bay.  The kit was based on a postwar machine.  Not seen the other kits so cannot comment on those.  They were mostly used as pilot trainers, as that took some tricky handling at times.  For this reason that were employed by B.A.T. flights, doped black underneath rather than the regulation yellow.  Ansons were used by A.N.S. for radio /navigation as they were more sedately.  Or so I understood from chaps who flew them.  

In other words, the Frog/Novo underside is smooth.  Whereas the modern molding has a box shape.  If someone more knowledgeable would like to comment and say which underside the air ambulances had, I shall be grateful.

[Graham Boak]

I suspect all Oxfords had the box shape, as it does not appear to have sufficient depth to have Light Store Carriers and small bombs without protruding into the lower fuselage. However I have not seen views or cutaways highlighting this detail.

 

It was RAF policy that trainers should not be too sedate and easy to fly, as such would not weed out the less capable early enough, thus wasting time and money overall.  However I believe that Ansons were used fairly widely as pilot trainers, not least by the RCAF.  This may have been a case of availability and need.

[Work In Progress]

I've never seen a service Oxford without that boxy underside. Its absence from the Frog kit, and an easy fix, is mentioned in the Carmel Attard review I linked in post #8 above. I might make the edges of mine just a touch more sharp-edged than Carmel did, when the time comes

Edited December 15, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Mike Starmer]

Ref. Ambulance Oxfords.  Found in my paper files an underside view of P8833 ambulance, it does have the bomb bay.  Picture cutting was in 'The Aeroplane' magazine, no dated noted.  Undersurfaces were white as is the fuselage serial.  Serial in black under the wings as are the usual A type roundel and red cross outboard of the roundel.