James Nicolson's Hurricane GN*A

[Brian J]

My apologies if this inquiry has been addressed.  My references contradict each other (as they often do) as to the placement of the squadron codes of this well known aircraft.  

 

On page 592 of Battle of Britain Combat Archive, Vol. 5 by Simon W Parry, we read, "Based upon the few existing photos of 249 Squadron Hurricanes in August 1940, the GN code letters were placed aft of the roundel on the starboard side.  The Robert Taylor print Battle of Britain VC also shows these markings.  

 

Several years ago I purchased the Aviaeology 1/48 Vital Storm pt. 2 decal sheet AOD48007.2m whose instructions indicate the GN code was in front of the roundel on the starboard side.  

 

I would enjoy reading opinions on the above question as well as any others concerning the markings of this aircraft. 

 

In my above references I failed to include the dust cover image of the "full and authorised biography" 'Nicolson VC' by Peter D Mason, published in 1991.  It has the same markings as the Robert Taylor print with squadron code GN aft of the roundel on the starboard side.  The entire leading edge of the vertical tail is also red as in the Taylor print.  It would be interesting to learn what these artists based their artwork on.  Thumbing through my Battle of Britain references it appears that many Spitfire and Hurricane units carried unit codes in a similar fashion.     

Edited December 10, 2019 by Brian J

[Work In Progress]

I dount anyone has information of greater value than the 2015 thread on this, but if anyone does have anything new I am sure they will chip in

 

[JackG]

Could it be some slight confusion as to what aft refers to, (aft refers to reading left to right, not the tail end of the aircraft?), or maybe they have since corrected?

https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p120/AOD72007.2m.html#/  

 

To me,  Aviaeology have the starboard side GN codes aft of the roundel,  just like the period photos.   I purchased that particular set of decals back in 2012, and instructions/illustrations are just as above.

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited December 9, 2019 by JackG

[Alan F]

Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion , there's a photo of LF 363 when she was painted as 249 sqn's GN - F and she has the GN before the roundel on the starboard side with the serial partially over the G . I'd like to think the BBMF were historically accurate with their colour schemes .

[Work In Progress]

19 minutes ago, Alan F said:

Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion , there's a photo of LF 363 when she was painted as 249 sqn's GN - F and she has the GN before the roundel on the starboard side with the serial partially over the G . I'd like to think the BBMF were historically accurate with their colour schemes .

Recent years they have made more efforts but for most of the BBMF's life accuracy of colour schemes has not been good at all. 

[dogsbody]

3 hours ago, JackG said:

Could it be some slight confusion as to what aft refers to, (aft refers to reading left to right, not the tail end of the aircraft?), or maybe they have since corrected?

https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p120/AOD72007.2m.html#/  

 

To me,  Aviaeology have the starboard side GN codes aft of the roundel,  just like the period photos.   I purchased that particular set of decals back in 2012, and instructions/illustrations are just as above.

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

Aft is aft, or towards the back/rear end. On the Aviaeology decal diagram, the "A" is aft of the starboard side roundel. 

 

 

Chris

[Work In Progress]

Correct. Aft = back end

[Mark Postlethwaite]

I don't think there's ever been a proven photo of Nicolson's Hurricane, but on page 591of Battle of Britain Combat Archive, Vol. 5 by Simon W Parry, we published a photo of Nicolson, Grandy and Lohmeyer which is supposedly taken on the morning of the combat.  The Hurricane in the background has the GN codes aft of the roundel.

[Brian J]

Many thanks for your response, Mark.  After reading I immediately referred to your reference.  I hadn't paid enough attention to the background in that photo.  Well done!  I commend the efforts of the publishing/editing team that produces this excellent series on the Battle of Britain.  A must reference for a serious enthusiast!  The artwork, maps and general layout is top notch! 

 

I would be grateful if you would express your opinion on this subject, as to the size of the 'red devil emblem' under the port windscreen.  What is it based on if there are no proven photos of Nicolson's Hurricane?  Is the Robert Taylor painting accurate concerning the starboard view?

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Can I say that the devil badge appeared in a profile of Nicholson's Hurricane in a very early IPMS Quarterly USA - early 70s?  I therefore suggest that this knowledge was around for a long time before the recent (re)discovery and so a photo may well exist, and have been known then.

 

Sorry, I don't recall which side of the roundel the codes were, and I've sold on the magazines so can't check.

[JackG]

The red devil emblem was confirmed by his widow, but other than being described as having a 'defiant gesture', it's not sure exactly what it looked like? 

 

The Nicolson display at Tangmere museum:

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited December 10, 2019 by JackG

[Brian J]

Boy, I'd love to hear how Nicolson's widow knew about the markings on her husbands aircraft as I believe 249 Squadron was based at Boscombe Down at the time.  I'm not positive where Muriel was living at the time but we read on page 40 of Nicolson VC that, "His first concern was to get him to hospital but he insisted on dictating telegrams to his wife and Squadron Commander.  To his wife he said:  "Shot down. Very slightly hurt.  Full particulars later. All my love. Nick."  Why would he send her a telegram if she lived near the base?  Was that how people communicated in an emergency during the war?  Where was she living at the time and how would she know the markings of her husband's aircraft?

 

On another note, in response to the comment made by Graham Boak, I found a comment by Frank Campey that I filed in my Hurricane folder years ago that reads, "Dear Neil, I found a small error in the article on Nicolson's 249 Squadron machine...The letters GN were aft of the roundel on the starboard side.  A photograph of GN.A does exist and was published in Scale Aircraft Modelling Volme 4, No. 8, May 1982  It is a very poor photo, but I have seen a better reproduction in another publication some years ago..."

 

I'm not sure what photo he was referring to but perhaps one of our members may have access to that photo  or that issue of Scale Aircraft Modelling Mr. Campey mentioned.

[Black Knight]

The panel in the lower left of the above photo is the allegedly the actual panel from the Hurricane. 

yes, people did communicate by telegram then. right up to the early 1980s people did so - I delivered loads of them. famously Spike Milligan used to send his wife a telegram when he wanted tea - him in his home study and she in the kitchen or garden

phone lines were restricted in 1940, in fear of 5th columnists eavesdropping

[JackG]

According to the link I had posted, Nicolson had written to his wife just prior to his August 16th 1940 engagement (that would result in his award of the VC).   In said letter, the red devil emblem is one of things mentioned to her, and she in turn, recounted this to her nephew many years later.

 

The other source, (which I believe is the base of modern magazine articles?), was a November 30, 1940 article in the  Illustrated London News.  The particular artist "Bryan De Grineau drew details personally supplied by Flight Lieut. Nicolson VC".

 

Not sure the devil emblem panel at the museum is original.   Wasn't his aircraft on fire and abandoned while still in the air?   The Aviaeology link posted earlier also instructs that they are not certain of the emblem size, and have therefore included two samples of different dimensions.   This article also seems to indicate the museum piece was commissioned around c.1979 (or thereafter?) and prepared by Michael Payne:

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/138302-flt-lt-james-nicolson-vc-and-the-raf-s-display-typhoon

 

regards,

Jack

[dogsbody]

I have browsed through some of the digital copies of some old magazines I have and found this in an old SAM. Unfortunately, whoever scanned the magazines didn't scan the covers and also managed to not include the issue or the date. 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Mark Harmsworth]

I may have remembered this wrong but I thought some clarification on the markings on GN-G came up when the Typhoon display team did a tribute to Flight Lieutenant Nicholson VC - was that 2015?

Mark

 

[Our Ned]

The photo to which the comment from Frank Campey refers is indeed in Scale Aircraft Modelling Volme 4, No. 8, May 1982  It is, as he wrote, a very poor photo showing two Hurricanes taking off - the further one is coded GN-A - however, it is taken from the port side, so does not help answer the OP's question.  There is a line drawing of another 249 Sqn aircraft, also showing the port side, coded GD-C (no serial shown).  The text of the article states: "Markings during the Battle of Britain were standard for the period - that is dark earth and dark green uppersurfaces and sky under­sides. Type B roundels were above and type A below the wings with type Al on the fuselage. On reforming in May 1940 the squadron was allocated the code letters GN and these were carried with the individual letter in medium grey on the fuselage forward of the black serials. The GN codes were aft of the roundel on the starboard side and forward on the port. Examples of Hurricanes with 249 during this period were P3088 GN:G and V6728 GN:Z."  No other reference seems to be quoted.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Our Ned

[JackG]

Right, I think this is the 1940 article as it appeared as a double page spread, I thought it would be in colour??  Given the size of the emblem, it leaves quite a bit of interpretation to the exact details.   Was there a facing page with a more detailed devil drawn?

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Troy Smith]

30 minutes ago, Our Ned said:

The photo to which the comment from Frank Campey refers is indeed in Scale Aircraft Modelling Volme 4, No. 8, May 1982  It is, as he wrote, a very poor photo showing two Hurricanes taking off - the further one is coded GN-A - however, it is taken from the port side, so does not help answer the OP's question. 

 

  

On 08/05/2015 at 00:22, Troy Smith said:

Open to debate, but I'd not trust a profile without a supporting photo, and apparently there are no photos of Nicholson's plane.

But there is a photo of GN-C and GN-A taking off on "Hurricane - The Illustrated History" on bottom of page 90, but is low resolution. Date is given as September 1940, but the books captions are often wrong.

Here's a photo as no scanner on this. There is no other info on this photo. Does anyone know more?

The GN-A in that looks like GN-C below, but with slightly thicker fin stripes than GN /P3154 in the next photo. The red does not cover the front of the fin, or appears not too as a what looks like the camoflage can be seen.

I know of two other 249 Sq photos. I don't know if this is the same GN-C, the one above looks to have a blob beneath the cockpit, bit this could just be a glitch in the picture, or less likely, some personal motif.

and

this, P3154, note the very narrow but full fin height fin stripes. This helpfully shows the Sq codes read GN-A on the starboard side, this varies a lot between squadrons, the placement is not fixed!

see - http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/p/137680/1433121.aspx#1433121

from http://www.kirkbymoorside.info/day-hurricane-crashed-near-kirkbymoorside/

Quote

Hurricane P3154 on the back of the lorry about to leave Kirkbymoorside

History of the plane

Hurricane R3154 [sic - P3154 is more likley] was built to contract 96237/38 by Gloster Aircraft Ltd at Hucclecote and delivered to the RAF in February 1940 and after acceptance was flown to 607 Squadron at Vitry-en-Artois, France in March 1940. It moved with the unit to Abbeville on 12th April 1940, and returned to Vitry-en-Artois on 26th April 1940. It then moved to Norrent Fontes on 19th May 1940. 607 Squadron withdrew from France arriving Croydon on 22nd May 1940 but without any aircraft.

Hurricane P3154 made its way back to the UK and after servicing was issued to 249 Squadron at Leconfield in June 1940 and the unit then transferred to Church Fenton on 8th July 1940. It suffered Cat.R/FA damage in the incident at Kirkbymoorside, detailed above.

After repair the aircraft was issued to 56 Squadron at Boscombe Down in September 1940. The aircraft was to be written off later the same year whilst taking part in the Battle of Britain. Sgt D.H.Nicholls of 56 Squadron was injured in combat over Yeovil at 16.00hrs on the 7th of October 1940. The aircraft crashed at Alton Pancras, Somerset. Initially the damage was declared as Cat.R but after assessment was Re-Cat.W and struck off charge.

I'd say this is as good a guide as you will get, so I'd day use the 35" A1 roundels.

 

Aviology have hedged their bets on the decals and given the different options portrayed. The above photos may have surfaced later than the sheet, GN-C P3870 looks like a rare private photo, and the recovery probably is as well.

 

Without an airframe history it's hard to say more, a production date and when the plane was in an M.U. would help on the roundels.

 

I'd say the underwing would be unlikely, unless you have squadron diary, if they were not in combat in the preceding days the roundels may have been applied.

 

HTH

 

 

another thread that is in the link

 

  

On 05/08/2015 at 21:25, Troy Smith said:

The answer is, without a photo, you don't know. There is no standard

This link may have got 'lost' http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/p/137680/1433121.aspx#1433121

but it is the best posting I have seen on the possible variation of RAF codes letters.

What I was trying to do in my posts above was show any other examples from the era of squadron practice, which is the 'next best' after a photo.

From the one photo of the starboard side of a 249 Sq Hurricane in July 1940, the codes read GN-H.

I don't know of another starboard photo of a 249 Sq plane from the BoB era.

You need to remember photography was prohibited on RAF bases, and during the battle this was much more of a concern, so photos from this era are very rare.

Those that exist are from two categories, from the occasional official shoot, two example are of 32 Sq at Hawkinge and 85 Sq at Castle Camps in July 1940, or the film of 56 Sq taking off [uS code], or 510 Sq taking off [sD code] all of which are very well known as a result.

Or illicit private shots, which the picture of GN-C is likely an example, which have leaked out from veterans photo albums over the years.

From memory though the commoner Squadron codes placement in the era is XX-X of the port side, and XX-X on the starboard.

Hurricane squadrons in the Battle with this form, from photographs, are 17 (YB), 32 (GZ) , 56(US), 85(VY), 87 (LK), 229 (RE), 234(VK), 249 (GN), 257(DT), 303 (RF).

An example of codes reading X-XX port and XX-X starboard is 504 Sq , code TM.

 

 

the pics posted by @Dances With Wolves  are no longer up. 

 

 

 

[Smithy]

The photo of GN-C and GN-A taking off is actually only a very small part of a larger photo which was taken by Georges Perrin and in which six Hurricanes are visible, four in flight and two on the ground. Georges joined 249 on the 1st October so the photograph dates from after Nicholson's VC action and the aircraft was lost. 

[BIG X]

Here's mine - endorsed by @Dances With Wolves…

 

 

[JackG]

Here is a bit more of the cropped photo of Hurricanes scrambling:

 

 

Same photo is also found on pg 103 of Osprey's Hurricane Aces 1939-40, but shows even more than the above, and is much crisper.   Just as Smithy identifies the date as October 1940, so does Osprey.  The lone aircraft at the far left appears to be GN@F, while GN@A  definitely has a smaller individual aircraft letter.   The two Hurricanes in the immediate foreground look to be the Canadian squadron, as the codes are YO.

 

-----------------------------

 

I thought I had more photo evidence of the GN codes located forward of the roundel on the starboard side, but the trio that I have are all of the same pilot - Thomas 'Ginger' Neil.   Is it known when these photos were taken, perhaps a timeline can be established when 249 changed the orientation of their starboard codes?

 

 

 

 

---------------------------------------

 

Though not Nicolson's aircraft,  Millington's horse insignia could be used as a standard to size the devil emblem.

 

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited December 11, 2019 by JackG

[Dances With Wolves]

Hi folks.

 

Please see here for a summary of my involvement in Nick's VC adventures - Nicolson's Red Devil 

 

The Tom Neil photos of him larking about in front of what I believe is the replacement 'GN-A' (post August 16, 1940) were taken by Cecil Beaton at North Weald (where 249 Squadron vets still convene annually - I attended one such gathering in 2015, with my close friend Jim Nicolson, nephew of James VC). I believe 249 re-located there September 1, 1940. Cecil Beaton - North Weald 

 

I've persuaded Jim to build his 1/24 Airfix Hurricane Mk.I kit as 'GN-A' for the Battle of Britain tribute display being co-ordinated by Neil Robinson for Scale Model World 2020 - Jim will also be giving his fascinating illustrated talk about his uncle at the show. As an aside, we're short of B of B Heinkel 111 builds at the minute - if you'd like to join the team and contribute models for what is looking to be, a great 80th anniversary tribute, then please mail me at [email protected] 

 

 

TTFN

 

Steve   

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dances With Wolves