How to get to a Spitfire PR Mk IV in 1/48 Scale

[Brad-M]

Ok Guys,

 

Given the plethora of 1/48 Spitfire kits that we have today, what would be the best way to get to the PR Mk IV?

 

TIA

 

Brad

[fubar57]

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/features/spitfirepriv48fr_1.htm

[fubar57]

Also, to be used with the Airfix Mk.I kit....https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PAVU48057?result-token=qnUR8

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, Brad-M said:

Ok Guys,

 

Given the plethora of 1/48 Spitfire kits that we have today, what would be the best way to get to the PR Mk IV?

 

TIA

 

Brad

depends what you have,  or are prepared too buy, and how much work you are prepared to do.

 

the PR IV has the bowser or 'D' wing, The only kit which has this is the Airfix PR XIX. It's only injected full PR variant, so has the fusleage cameras as well.

It should be possible to graft a new nose, tail and rads from a Mk.I/V  onto a XIX kit.  It has a pressurised cockpit as well, which would need modifying.

There are undoubtedly other detail which would need attending too.   One advantage of this idea is it is possible to use the nose and tail off a less accurate Mk.I/V kit, like the old tool Tamiya, or if you can be bothered to rescribe, the old tool 1978 Revell Mk.II,  which has a decent nose and tailplane. 

the XIX tailfin could just be carved back, and a replacement rudder used, all the Eduard Merlin 60 kit have alternate rudders and tailplanes, as do the ICM kits

 

But making  a bowser wing is not that difficult.

 

the fuselage is basically a Mk.I/II/V    so any accurate Mk.I or V is a good starting point, so these days that is either new tool Airfix or new tool Tamiya.

 

A wild card cheapie is the 1978 era Airfix Spitfire Vb, as this has minimal fine raised panel lines, (so no filling and erasing in wing) and overall is very well shaped, just needs the top of the cowl sanding down at the front.  

Can supply more detail if you wish on this.

 

the Pavla set @fubar57  is useful for certain parts, and has bits for several models.   

 

Canopies can also be found in the Falcon Spitfire Special set.

http://falconmodels.co.nz/clearvax/set51.html

note they are for the old tool Tamiya Mk.I

 

the PR IV article here

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/features/spitfirepriv48fr_1.htm

is using the old Tamiya Mk.I,  and is makes more work than needed to fix the fuselage issue.  

 

You do need to pin down what PR IV you wish to make, as there are variations.   As with most things Spitfire, the devil is in the detail.

@gingerbob maybe able to add more.

HTH

 

[Giorgio N]

There is more than one way to get to a PR.IV and in the end it's down to preferences.

Personally I would start from a Mk.I/V, as all the structural components would be there. I prefer to fill and rescribe the panel lines of a Mk.I/V rather than recreate the radiator area and the modify the fuselage of a Mk.XIX.

Now, Mk.I or Mk.V ? A Mk.V would already have the proper larger oil radiator, a Mk.I will likely include the correct tubulat exhaust.  As both parts can also be found in resin from several manufacturers, it's not a big deal. If choosing a Mk.V, it must be one with the externally armoured windscreen, as the contour of the PR windscreen is the same. The later internally armoured windscreen has a different shape at the bottom.

Another thing to keep in mind is the propeller: if you use a Mk.V, make sure that the kit offers the Dh propeller, the PR variants did not use the Rotol... but IIRC all 1/48 kits have both propellers.

The Pavla set will suppy the two most difficult thing to scratchbuild: the deeper chin and the clear parts, with a few other useful bits like the rear tank and the bilsters for the fuel pumps.  As Troy said, the canopies can also come from Falcon. Pavla issued two similar sets, one for the Tamiya kit (older tool) and one for the Airfix one, check that you are buying the set for the kit you have as parts like the canipies may not fit the other kit (I know they don't fit in the 1/72 kits, not sure about 1/48 but better play safe).

[gingerbob]

Hi Brad,

 

As Troy said, early on you want to have a particular subject chosen, because there will be some differences from one to another (most obvious, trop or temperate?)

 

I'm with Giorgio in that I'd approach it mostly from the perspective of converting a Spit I/II/Vb.  Actually I'd probably prefer to start from an 'a' wing, since there'll be fewer bulges to remove.  Unless you're doing one of the VERY early ones, it'll be the Mk.V style oil cooler (temp or trop), but finding one of those, if not in the kit, won't be a problem.

 

bob

[Brad-M]

Thanks very much everyone. Your replies are very helpful.

 

Cheers,

Brad

[72modeler]

Here are some specs I gathered for a 1/72 PR MK IV build I have been working on, from various reference sources. Haven't decided if I will use the Airfix or Tamiya kit, but have the Pavla PR sets for both. Airfix kit is the more accurate in dimension and shape, but the Tamiya's issues are pretty easy to fix and the scribing is much easier to fill, as it is very fine. Model Alliance/On Target did an excellent monograph Photo Reconnaissance Spitfires in World Service, Profile 8  that included specs, photos, and colors and markings for all variants up to an including the PR XIX that would be a really good modeling resource if you can find one at less than the national debt. Gingerbob and Giorgio's suggestions are both excellent ways to get there. It's a pretty handsome airplane, even with the Aboukir tropical filter!

Mike

 

PR Mk IV/trop (same as PR MK ID/ID trop, as the nomenclature changed as some point)

 

span: 36' 10" length: 29' 11"

engine: Merlin 45, 46, 50, 55, or 56

prop: DH three-blade; a few were fitted with Rotol 3-blade, according to some sources

exhaust: three-stub tubular or fishtail (use photo of the one you want to do)

wheels: five spoke

 

extended wingtips; Aboukir or Vokes air filter; two cameras under fuselage aft of the wings on the centerline;  57 imp. gallon (some sources stated 66.5) fuel tanks in wing leading edge, Bowser or 'D' wing); 29 imp. gallon fuel tank behind cockpit; 14 imp. gallon oil tank fitted in LH gun bay with a very small teardrop-shaped blister on the upper surface, but some Mk IV's show a larger oil tank in a deepened lower cowling ; oblique camera fitted in LH radio hatch; pointed spinner; hood has blisters on both sides and the windscreen is the rounded, unarmored type; wing tank filler caps located between rib 19 and 20, with the expansion/overflow vents being fitted between ribs 20 and 21.

 

The link below shows a photo of Spitfire PR IV X4492, that was converted from a Mk 1 and used in Canada for camera trials and photo mapping during the war; note the 30-gallon underwing tanks, standard wings, and deepened cowling over the larger oil tank, so you can see there were variations in appearance even within a marque!

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/spitfire9/spitfire-pr-mk-iv/

Edited December 9, 2019 by 72modeler
added text

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

 

The link below shows a photo of Spitfire PR IV X4492, that was converted from a Mk 1 and used in Canada for camera trials and photo mapping during the war; note the 30-gallon underwing tanks, standard wings, and deepened cowling over the larger oil tank, so you can see there were variations in appearance even within a marque!

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/spitfire9/spitfire-pr-mk-iv/

 

I'm not sure that X4492 was a PR.IV. I've seen this aircraft listed as built as a Mk.I fighter and then converted to a PR Type C and later a PR Type F,

 

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Model Alliance/On Target did an excellent monograph Photo Reconnaissance Spitfires in World Service, Profile 8  that included specs, photos, and colors and markings for all variants up to an including the PR XIX that would be a really good modeling resource if you can find one at less than the national debt.

it floats about as a .pdf if you look.   

The big problem with this publication, IMO, is that it's nearly all profiles, and as such, you are then relying on the artists judgement. It does list sources, but a few are 'private collection'

A few years ago I had to argue my point with said artist over details of Hurricane, eventually requiring lines drawn on a photo to make the point clearly. The changes were made but it took concerted effort to make the point, which means that I really want to see the source photo for the pretty profiles.

They were also tied in with the Model Alliance decal sheets, being effectively their placement guide..... 

 

If you can find them, the two Ventura publications on Merlin PR Spitfires are the best resources I have seen on the these PR Sptifires. 

The PR Spitfires in detail https://www.amazon.co.uk/Merlin-Spitfires-Detail-Classic-Warbirds/dp/0958229651

is great for the airframe details.  This was easily available a few years ago.

 

this one https://modelingmadness.com/scott/books/ventura/merlinprspits.htm  is great for operational photos and camo and markings, but I have never seen a copy for sale, not even at silly money on the usual online sources,  (periodically I have a search for one) though pdf's are out there.

It a really great book, and it's a great shame it is unavailable to buy anymore.

Many of the schemes profiled in the On Target book are drawn from the photos in this publication.

 

 

 

 

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

I'm not sure that X4492 was a PR.IV.

Giorgio and Troy,

 

I was going by the details in the attached link/s. X4492 apparently went through many variations, and according to one link,  from a Mk 1a to PR types all the way to  a Mk  VI.  It was still around in 1947 and there is a possibility it still exists. I have the On Target Profile 8, and while many the color profiles do not have accompanying photos, as you both have pointed out, several do, one being X4492. I also have the Ventura PR Spitfire monograph, but I had forgotten I had it- upon examination, it doesn't cover the details for each PR variant, mainly the PRXI, but based on one of the scale drawings, X4492 appears to be, at least in the  the photograph posted, a PR III or Type C. I have no idea as to the veracity of the information in either linked site, but offer them for a modeler to read and make up his/her own mind as to the accuracy of the contents. FWIW, there is a photo of a PR III Type C in it  that states that it was fitted with a 30-gallon fuel tank under the RH wing in a blister fairing, and a smaller fairing with two F.24 cameras under the LH wing.  If  Edgar were still with us, I'm sure he would be able to quote chapter and verse!

Mike 

 

(If I have to eat crow on this one, gentlemen, I prefer mine flame-broiled with  steak fries on the side!)

 

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/X4492

 

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/79837-spitfire-x4492

Edited December 10, 2019 by 72modeler
added text, corrected spelling

[72modeler]

I went up to the archives/library upstairs and pulled my copy of the Ventura monograph on Merlin PR Spitfires, and found the text quoted below in its entirety from  page 62 regarding the larger oil tank fitted to the PR Spits:

"PR IV Engine Oil Tanks- PR IV's featured an extra 18-gallon oil tank in the port wing in the inboard gun bay area, in addition to the standard fighter size oil tank. Thus, they had a standard lower nose contour, without the enlarged "chin" of the PR Type C, F, or the later PR XI aircraft."

 

There were also three diagrams on pages 62-63 that showed the locations and piping for the wing oil tank, engine oil tank, and enlarged oil tank. On the diagram of the wing-mounted oil tank fitted to the PR IV, there was a filler cap shown on the upper LH wing and a teardrop-shaped blister fairing on the undersurface of the wing below the sump. I offer this for reference if someone is considering a modeling project.

Mike

[Giorgio N]

X4492 certainly started her life as a Mk.I fighter and certainly was converted for recce purposes. This aircraft is listed as sent back for wing replacement when she was a PR type C and was certainly converted to a PR type F, that should have been the final configuration.

I've also seen mention that she was converted to a Mk.V... of course this aircraft never was a proper Mk.V, this entry for early PR Spitfires meant the installation of a Merlin 45 engine.. so she was a Mk.V PR, but not a fighter Mk.V.

Another detail regarding designations of early PR types, initially these were known as Mk.I PR type x, with letters from A to G being used. Later a roman numeral was used instead of the letter, so it was possible to see Mk.VI or Mk.VII... these designations however must not be confused with the fighter variants of the same name ! One of the link mentions X4492 as converted to a Mk.VI, this means a PR Mk.VI, that is an alternative designation for the PR type F (F being the 6th letter of the alphabet leads to Mk.VI).

The problem I see in the list of modifications to X4492 is that conversion to a type D or Mk.IV means use of a bowser wing, while the Type F or Mk.VI  to the best of my knowledge did not have this. So if she was converted at some point into a Mk.IV, why was she converted back to a type F ? It is true that this aircraft is listed as sent to Heston for a replacement wing, maybe a D wing was used for a while and then removed for some reason ?

There are other problems in one of those links... at some point a conversion to PR VII standard is mentioned.. this was an armed variant, that retained the 8 machine guns. Again, why convert an aircraft from unarmed to armed then unarmed again ?

The conversion from type C to type F on the other hand makes sense, and I believe that a good number of Cs, if not all, became Fs.

In any case, when X4492 was sent to Canada, she was a PR Mk.VI, or type F with a Merlin 45, so an aircraft configured to a standard different from the Mk.IV

[gingerbob]

Giorgio, I think you've summed it up pretty well.  Those early PR histories (as translated for "Spitfire the History") are a bit of a mess, or, more charitably, definitely confusing at times.  While there may be exceptions, I think it very unlikely that an airframe would go from "bowser wing" configuration to something else- that wing, after all, became the "ultimate" PR configuration.