Help with " Ice Blue " colour

[Alan F]

Just joined this site , fed up waiting for the IPMS one to clear my registration . This may not be strictly WWII as the date in question is between 1948 and 1953 - but the colour in question was on a Hurricane IIc . I have a publication called " At the 'Beach " which was a local publication about the Aircraft stationed at RAF Waterbeach - which is where i live and where my father served in the RAF when he was with 56sqn with Hunters , he was ground crew on radios .

There is a black and white photo of Hurricane LF 363 as part of the station flight sitting outside on of the hangers , the photo is dated 2nd July 1953 . I originally thought it might have been painted Silver but having bought the magazine  "Battle of Britain memorial flight - paint schemes from WW2 to the present day " there is an illustration on page 73 showing the aircraft in what in the text describes as " Ice Blue " the aircraft also having the later type roundels as the Meteors etc would have had in that period .

Does anyone have or know of any reference to that colour ? i've searched and come up with nothing . Was it used on anything else in the RAF or is it a B.S colour ? I could just match it to the colour illustration but i'm never sure how close the printing is to the real thing or what the publishers based the colour on .

I will be starting a 1/24 Trumpeter Hurricane IIc as LF 363 in this scheme shortly and would like to find a reference for the paint if possible , any help would be greatly appreciated . Many thanks , Al

[epozar]

Ice Blue 18-C-31
https://www.britishstandardcolour.com/

[Work In Progress]

This Ice Blue hypothesis for LF363 as the scheme she wore when being used by Stanley Vincent is a recent flavour of the month, based as far as I can tell on anecdote, and I can see no logic or primary evidence for it. It is vastly more likely to have been Aluminium / High Speed Silver, the colour you would expect for the era, which goes with the markings, and which was the correct colour for  all such aircraft at the time. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Alan F]

Thanks to both who replied , i have seen the B.S chart and the colour is nothing like what is shown in the magazine . I did wonder if Vincent had maybe had it painted like his  WW1 mount , has seen a few illustrations of Moraine Saulniers in a similar shade but can't find any written descriptions or anything . Even if Vincent had it painted Ice Blue , it was repainted for the film Angels one five in 1951 , after he'd retired , then according to the publication mentioned it was returned to Ice Blue and came to Waterbeach . Why would it have been repainted Ice blue ? whatever colour it was at Waterbeach it was repainted for the film Reach for the sky in 1955 , then it was painted Silver for G.C P. Thompson DFC . I think it more likely that it was at least silver when at Waterbeach then repainted silver after the second film .

[Work In Progress]

Yeah. I've seen the tale but absolutely no evidence or reasoning for it, just the unsupported assertion that it was blue. It's not even a paint that would have been available through the supply chain for application to a serving RAF machine. I really don't believe a word of it. In the well known pic of Vincent standing next to it it has a distinctly metallic sheen.  Your model, your call., of course.  Personally I might consider it worth giving the blue a punt on a quick 1/72 model but I wouldn't to go to the trouble of using up a very nice Trumpeter 1/24 kit on a claim so lacking in credibility.

 

If someone comes up with a well balanced colour photo showing it blue in that timeframe, or a contemporaneous eye-witness account  from a qualified witness, then that's another matter but so far those seem to be entirely absent.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Alan F]

Pretty much my thoughts , i might see if i can contact the names credited to the photo in this publication about Waterbeach , i might be able to get their details from the Waterbeach barracks museum curator , who helped with the publication . Maybe one of the two names credited might have taken the photo themselves , hopefully they are both still around .

[Dave Fleming]

I know the author/artist, I'll ask him.

 

This was discussed here before

 

 

Also:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=71J2DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=LF363+ice+blue&source=bl&ots=X0vGUPqGTV&sig=ACfU3U08ZI_OMfUuTWKazvhxQxupMXXRUw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFtfL8iqnmAhUFlFwKHQNCA2MQ6AEwCXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=LF363 ice blue&f=false

 

There is another picture of it a few years later that is perhaps more ambiguous

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_cjMDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=LF363+ice+blue&source=bl&ots=9F8N6QWZAk&sig=ACfU3U2cDeaKvONRWwcCKBrgVYgeyvNSvw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFtfL8iqnmAhUFlFwKHQNCA2MQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=LF363 ice blue&f=false

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Dave Fleming

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Ironically, that 18-C-31 "Ice Blue" has colour coordinates which make it green-yellow.

[Alan F]

Thanks again to both those who've  replied . Very kind of you Dave to offer to ask , thank you . Interesting that in the Hurricane survivors book text you linked to , that it stated that it was returned to Ice Blue by washing of the temp camo colour for filming  , that might make a bit more sense than repainting back to non standard scheme , so that means , if that was the case , we only have to prove it was Ice Blue between 1948/50 .

I have to say though , the photo of it in Silver at Biggen Hill in 1956 - looks exactly like the same colour in the photo i've got of it at Waterbeach , I know they are both black and white photo's but the shade /glare etc looks the same to me .

Anyone know if this " Ice Blue " was supposed to be matt , satin or gloss ?

The other Waterbeach station flight aircraft around that time would all have been Silver , wouldn't they ? they still had the Anson when my father was there later and i believe they even had a couple of Meteors and a Vampire .

[Alan F]

Funny , just found an illustration of it in silver with text saying it was painted silver for S.Vincent . How do i attach a picture on here ?

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alan F
link was wrong

[Alan F]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/291959988328033900            I couldn't get the picture i had to load on here , it's the same picture /text but it wasn't on pinterest , so apologies to anyone who isn't able to log in to that .

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alan F

[Dave Fleming]

Spoke to Chris,  the colour he chose for the illustration was an approximation based on the descriptions he was given and the photos. The description was based on that recorded elsewhere

[Alan F]

Thanks again , much appreciated . Although i said i did think it more likely it was silver , obviously Chris is an authority on this . I can't think why the story of it being painted Ice Blue would have gained any traction if it wasn't based on fact . The very name of the colour almost makes it more likely being such a weird - non RAF name/colour . I was leaning towards silver , now i'm 50/50 !

 

I've just read the article Dave linked to - the survivors book , that seems to indicate that she was blue when at Waterbeach . it implies there was written instructions on the colour to be painted . So at the moment i'm leaning towards Ice blue as in Chris's illustration , but with the Triple ejector - nozzle outlet - manifolds and the cannon tubes still on - as she was at Waterbeach .

Edited December 10, 2019 by Alan F
additional info since ist paragraph .