cherisy Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Can anyone shed any light on what the weapons loads were for the RAF Phantoms during the 70s before they moved from strike to the Air Defence role ? I'm working on a 17 sqn example from 72. I'm hoping there are some ex armourers out there that can help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Most common were: - CBLS-100 practice bomb dispensers - 540 and 1000 lb GP bombs, with and without retarding devices for low level delivery - MATRA 155 / 116 rocket pods - Lepus flares - AIM-7E Sparrow - KB-18 strike camera in the starboard forward Sparrow well - SUU-23 gun pod on the centreline - EMI centreline recce pod for No 2 / 6 / 41 / 54 Squadron HTH, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Not quite. The KB-18 strike camera pod was carried in the PORT ( Station 4 ) forward Sparrow well .Our ( 17 Sqdn. ) normal load was : Sargeant Fletcher fuel tanks on outer pylons CBLS practice bomb carrier on port inboard pylon Camera pod in port forward Sparrow well Suu 23 gun pod on centreline Dummy ( ballast ) sparrow round in forward starboard Sparrow well Matra 155 rocket pod on triple ejector rack on starboard inner pylon For QRA duties they carried two live Sparrows in forward missile wells and a bucket of "Instant sunshine " on the centreline This was the normal day to day loadout, but obviously things changed on exercises, weapons meets, etc. NTH . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, cherisy said: Can anyone shed any light on what the weapons loads were for the RAF Phantoms during the 70s before they moved from strike to the Air Defence role ? I'm working on a 17 sqn example from 72. I'm hoping there are some ex armourers out there that can help Looking at photos of 17 Sqn Phantoms, common load seems to be centre gun, strike camera in fwd port recess, ballast 'sparrow' in stb'd side, CBLS practice bomb dispensers on inner pylons and drop tank on outers. More intriguing for a build, is that 17 Sqn were a tactical nuclear capable outfit so would have been capable of carrying the American B57 weapon, whether they practised with 'shapes' or not I don't know. Only 2 and 41 Squadrons carried the recce pod. 59 minutes ago, Hook said: - EMI centreline recce pod for No 2 / 6 / 41 / 54 Squadron Edited December 8, 2019 by 71chally 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I've got this from Phantom FG1,FGR2 Wpns Course Notes, John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 hours ago, 71chally said: Only 2 and 41 Squadrons carried the recce pod. "The EMI was introduced into service by No. 6 Squadron, with one flight maintaining limited use until the role was taken over by No. 41 Squadron. No. 54 Squadron was tasked with some service trials, including clearing the firing of the AIM-7 while carrying the pod." - British Phantoms: The Phantom FG Mk.1 and FGR Mk. 2 in Royal Navy and RAF Service, p. 83. 6 hours ago, Starfighter said: Not quite. The KB-18 strike camera pod was carried in the PORT ( Station 4 ) forward Sparrow well . Thanks!, I do tend to mix up port and starboard. It's a good thing I was never in the Navy... Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 111 Sqn also had a Phantom that conducted recce pod trials, but I wouldn't count that as a squadron so equipped for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBayKid Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Starfighter said: For QRA duties they carried two live Sparrows in forward missile wells and a bucket of "Instant sunshine " on the centreline What type of store was that specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, 71chally said: 111 Sqn also had a Phantom that conducted recce pod trials, but I wouldn't count that as a squadron so equipped for the role. Agreed. But I would say that an 111 Squadron aircraft did carry a recce pod. Perhaps I should have expressed myself more clearly. 8 hours ago, Hook said: EMI centreline recce pod for No 2 / 6 / 41 / 54 Squadron Aircraft from all these units did carry the EMI, with 6 Squadron even introducing it in service, for those who would like to model something different. Intetesting bit about the Treble One example. Would you have some more information? Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, NorthBayKid said: What type of store was that specifically? If I remember correctly it was either a B57 or B43 nuclear store. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, NorthBayKid said: What type of store was that specifically? US-owned B43 and B57, most likely. The UK WE.177 was never integrated on the FGR.2 since this was not deemed costeffective. Aero 8A practice "shapes" based on the B57 have been noted in the inventory as well. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, NorthBayKid said: What type of store was that specifically? In post #4 I mention B57. As I understand this was the US tactical Nuke allocated to UK SACEUR units of the period. Andre, I've genuinely not heard of 6 Squadron using the pod in service until now, that or it has been eroded from my mind. The Tremblers jet seen with recon pod, and with and without the flash unit, was XV406 D. Perhaps I should have worded it 'the dedicated Recon units were 2 & 41', but I take your point it makes for an interesting model with the other units markings on. Edited December 8, 2019 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Was the Phantom cleared for the BL755? sure Ive seen a photo of one carrying them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Julien said: Was the Phantom cleared for the BL755? sure Ive seen a photo of one carrying them? It was, but due to the Phantoms role they did not carry them much. It was more a CAS, i.e. Harrier / Jaguar thing. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 10 hours ago, 71chally said: Andre, I've genuinely not heard of 6 Squadron using the pod in service until now, that or it has been eroded from my mind. The Tremblers jet seen with recon pod, and with and without the flash unit, was XV406 D. Interesting - thanks! One of my long term projects is converting a outboard tank in a flash unit - the shape is harder to nail down than I first thought. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobski Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Related question from me - does anyone make a B43 or B57 bucket of instant sunshine in either 1/72 or 1/48? I fancy building a QRA bird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 12:29 PM, Starfighter said: Not quite. The KB-18 strike camera pod was carried in the PORT ( Station 4 ) forward Sparrow well .Our ( 17 Sqdn. ) normal load was : Sargeant Fletcher fuel tanks on outer pylons CBLS practice bomb carrier on port inboard pylon Camera pod in port forward Sparrow well Suu 23 gun pod on centreline Dummy ( ballast ) sparrow round in forward starboard Sparrow well Matra 155 rocket pod on triple ejector rack on starboard inner pylon For QRA duties they carried two live Sparrows in forward missile wells and a bucket of "Instant sunshine " on the centreline This was the normal day to day loadout, but obviously things changed on exercises, weapons meets, etc. NTH . Now you have me about to order an Eduard brassin "bucket of sunshine" !. I forgot all about the QRA aspect. I arrived at Bruggen just as the Tonkas were arriving in late 84/early 85 (only we didnt call them Tonkas then) Were the two inboard pylons retained ? and I take it the two rear sparrow wells were left empty? what would have been the load had the balloon gone up? would it have been bombs/rocket pods? Thanks for all the useful gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Spectre Resins make a 1:72 B57 Nuke. http://www.millcreekconsultants.com/SR-N1.html This is the only special weapon I've known associated with British Phantoms, however there do seem to be sources suggesting use of B43 and B61 aswel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillaume320 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Bobski said: does anyone make a B43 or B57 bucket of instant sunshine in either 1/72 or 1/48? The B43 and B57 (as well as the B61) are included in the Daco F-104 upgrade set, sprue E. (Sprues can be purchased individually from Daco if not in need of the full set...) G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hook said: One of my long term projects is converting a outboard tank in a flash unit - the shape is harder to nail down than I first thought. Andre Have you seen this set, I think it was also sold by Alleycat. The Recce pod is still available under Air Graphics, but not sure about the L39A Flash pod, https://www.scalemates.com/kits/odds-and-ordnance-oao-72033-raf-f4m-phantom-strike-camera-recce-pod-and-strobe-flasher-unit--1123602 Some manual extracts at the end of this thread, courtesy of @canberra kid Edited December 9, 2019 by 71chally 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Bobski said: Related question from me - does anyone make a B43 or B57 bucket of instant sunshine in either 1/72 or 1/48? I fancy building a QRA bird... Yep Eduard do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 hours ago, cherisy said: Now you have me about to order an Eduard brassin "bucket of sunshine" !. I forgot all about the QRA aspect. I arrived at Bruggen just as the Tonkas were arriving in late 84/early 85 (only we didnt call them Tonkas then) Were the two inboard pylons retained ? and I take it the two rear sparrow wells were left empty? what would have been the load had the balloon gone up? would it have been bombs/rocket pods? Thanks for all the useful gen As I remember ( It WAS a long time ago ! ) the inboard pylons were retained and the rear Sparrow wells were left empty. Regarding the special weapons I've looked at pictures of the B57, and to my memory it looks a bit short, and ours more like a B43. Of course it could be my memory playing tricks on me, so maybe they were B57's. As I say, it was a long time ago. If the balloon had gone up the planning was for conventional weapons to be used at first, and eventually resorting to nukes. This was the scenario that we practices on exercises. HTH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Starfighter said: This was the scenario that we practices on exercises. HTH Did you ever see Phantoms actually carrying a 'shape' or even a special weapon? Would they get airborne on these exercises, or was it ground handling scenerios? Great to hear from someone involved. Edited December 9, 2019 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Two drawings one of no real use, other than it's a very nice drawing of the strike camera, and an illustration from a McD brochure showing the position of the Mk.57 John 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 hours ago, 71chally said: Did you ever see Phantoms actually carrying a 'shape' or even a special weapon? Would they get airborne on these exercises, or was it ground handling scenerios? Great to hear from someone involved. In the final phase of the exercise we would generate as many serviceable aircraft and load them with dummy special weapons before doing a mass launch, which was quite impressive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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