RAAF 3SQN Mustang IVa (P-51K)

[gingerbob]

Nice work!  The bombs look "believable" [had to go check that spelling- just didn't look right when I typed it!]

 

I'm not sure the paper tanks were used "down south" in Italy, if you care about such esoteric factors.

[Pappy]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:36 PM, gingerbob said:

Nice work!  The bombs look "believable" [had to go check that spelling- just didn't look right when I typed it!]

 

I'm not sure the paper tanks were used "down south" in Italy, if you care about such esoteric factors.

G'day GB,

 

I agree completely, I don't think the paper tanks were used either but I built them anyway just in case I buy anothe Airfix Mustang kit, I will have the tanks already assembled. 

 

Speaking of external stores, I am unclear about the orientation of the swaybraces on the external underwing pylons?

 

The kit swaybrace pairs are identical and the instructions are a little vague, should they curve inwards or outwards?

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Edited December 23, 2019 by Pappy

[gingerbob]

So far it appears the answer is "inwards".  See photo on this post, and a bit more down the page (I didn't look on following pages).

 

There's a very good shot of a museum bird's pylon and braces about halfway down this walkaround, too.

 

(Just checked a book I was looking at yesterday, and found another really good wartime shot.  The braces look slightly different, but also hook ("bend") toward the center.)

Edited December 18, 2019 by gingerbob

[Pappy]

45 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

So far it appears the answer is "inwards".  See photo on this post, and a bit more down the page (I didn't look on following pages).

 

There's a very good shot of a museum bird's pylon and braces about halfway down this walkaround, too.

 

(Just checked a book I was looking at yesterday, and found another really good wartime shot.  The braces look slightly different, but also hook ("bend") toward the center.)

Awesome info, thanks very much!

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[Pappy]

G'day people,

 

Photobucket is not playing the game  presently. Despite all their messaging spin to the contrary, I cannot seem to log in and have been unable to do so for the past few days.

Not happy Jan!

 

Anyhoo, I have been progressing regardless and I am using an alternate image hosting site, hopefully this works,

 

 

I have just about got the airframe up to the painting stage. The tail planes are just dry fitted at this stage, as are the flaps, this is actually where I am at

 

 

The fit of the front windscreen was not too bad, I only needed a thin swipe of putty to blend the clear plastic part into the surrounding airframe curves,

 

 

 

Once I was happy with that, the next major job was to offer up the main wing assembly to the fuselage. Initially the fit was a bit frightening as there is a natural 'springiness' between the part forming the forward u/c bay and lower wing but some light pressure was all it needed to achieve a good fit

 

 

Again, a thin swipe of liquid putty was all it required to blend in the front seam

 

 

There is apparently another controversy regarding the u/c wheel doors. These doors were operate hydraulically and open when the undercarriage is cycled. The hydraulic pressure is supplied by an engine driven pump. When the engine shuts down the hydraulic pressure bleeds off with the result that the inner wheel doors sag open. The rate at which this would happen is the matter of conjecture and the arguments range back and forth due to various factors such as the quality and frequency of  hydraulic system maintenance, general practice etc. ,

 

My take is that immediately after shutdown, these doors were closed. If the aircraft was static for an hour or so, the doors would be partially open. These doors could also be opened manually for maintenance just to muddy the waters further. I think that basically any position between fully opened and fully closed is okay - builder's choice.

 

I have been playing around with both the doors open and doors closed options

 

 

 

 

I like the look of both. Most builds seem to have the doors open while most of my reference pics have the doors in various states, several show them to be closed and I am leaning that way,

 

Thanks for looking,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Pappy

[srkirad]

Details in wheelbay and doors itself are really nice, and it would be a shame to have them omitted if you choose to put the doors closed. 🤔

Of course you have the best idea how you would like these details to look in the end

 

Cheers,

S.

Edited December 23, 2019 by srkirad

[John Masters]

Looks good.  I was able to see these images.  The first page doesn't show images for me.

[Andwil]

Wheel wells look great, I would definitely have the doors open on this one.  With my Mustangs, around half a dozen so far, I have mixed them up, some open some closed and at least one somewhere in between.  I understand that while the doors were closed after the gear was lowered to protect against FOD damage, with power off hydraulic pressure was lost and gravity took over.

 

AW

[Rich B]

Coming along nicely. Looks like we are at about the same stage. Will have to try to get some pics taken today for my thread. I will have to liberate a pair of 500 lb bombs from my Tamiya or Eduard kits as the fins in my kit were short short.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[Pappy]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:26 PM, srkirad said:

Details in wheelbay and doors itself are really nice, and it would be a shame to have them omitted if you choose to put the doors closed. 🤔

Of course you have the best idea how you would like these details to look in the end

 

Cheers,

S.

Yeah, I dunno, perhaps I should not glue the door parts on and then I can just dry fit the parts that take my mood, i.e up or down?

On 12/24/2019 at 1:30 AM, John D.C. Masters said:

Looks good.  I was able to see these images.  The first page doesn't show images for me.

I dunno what the issue is but nobody else has mentioned the issue so it looks like the problem is at your end?

11 hours ago, Rich B said:

Coming along nicely. Looks like we are at about the same stage. Will have to try to get some pics taken today for my thread. I will have to liberate a pair of 500 lb bombs from my Tamiya or Eduard kits as the fins in my kit were short short.

 

Cheers,

Rich

Good-oh, about time you caught up!

 

G'day people,

 

I type this having slipped away from my familial obligations and feeling the onset of the food coma induced by an over indulgence of ham, tiger prawns and mangoes - plus a few frothy ales, my next door neighbor brews a wicked Leffe Blond  🎉

 

Yesterday, I completed the canopy fittings. Airfix supplies a canopy brace. The PE sit includes a replacement item which needs to be folded  in half to avoid looking too thin, but still looks too thin and I prefer to attach plastic to plastic so I decided against using it and sanded down the kit item to a realistic thickness after first drilling out the lightening holes

 

 

and installed

 

 

The undercarriage legs have been tarted up as well

 

 

 

 

I will be using replacement resin exhaust stubs but I had  a crack at painting and weathering the kit supplied 'zorsts first,

 

 

not bad, but the resin items are crisper,

 

 

They are just base coated here, weathering to follow,

 

Merry Christmas to all and thanks for looking,

 

Pappy

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Pappy

[srkirad]

1 hour ago, Pappy said:

Yeah, I dunno, perhaps I should not glue the door parts on and then I can just dry fit the parts that take my mood, i.e up or down?

Or make them moveable? 🙄

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays,

S.

[Hewy]

Smashing job  pappy!

[RidgeRunner]

 Your Photobucket pics have disappeared?

 

Martin

[Pappy]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:00 AM, Hewy said:

Smashing job  pappy!

 

G'day Hewy, thanks very much

On 12/28/2019 at 9:04 PM, RidgeRunner said:

 Your Photobucket pics have disappeared?

 

Martin

G'day Martin,

 

It appears Photobucket is still not fixed yet. The automated Photobucket message has  assured me however that my pictures are safe - so safe in fact that not even I can see them 🤬

 

Well, the kit is ready for painting

 

 

 

I also have a canopy question for the Mustang 'experten'

 

There is a canopy track on top of the fuselage that the canopy mechanism runs in as the canopy opens rearwards.

The  thing is, the canopy opening track and the cockpit sill are in two different planes. With the canopy fully forward (closed) this is not an issue

 

 

As the canopy is opened and travels rearwards, with the canopy only partially opened, again this is not an issue. 

However, as the canopy is opened further aft, the rear of the canopy underside starts to project above the fuselage

 

 

If I remember correctly, this is not correct as it should be more horizontal?

When fully aft, does this mean that the canopy 'transitions' planes so that the lower forward edges are at angle to the cockpit sill?

 

This does not look right either?

 

I have also painted and weathered up the replacement resin exhaust stacks

 

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Pappy

[Dansk]

Superb job you are doing with all areas of the build. This is all looking really great 👍 

 

[Pappy]

Just now, Dansk said:

Superb job you are doing with all areas of the build. This is all looking really great 👍 

 

Cheers Paul,

 

Thanks very much

 

Pappy

[ColFord]

As you are modelling a Mustang Mk.IVa/P-51K, and the question of the main inner undercarriage doors up or down has arisen, plus usually along with that goes the question of flaps up or down if parked, well I think I have found an answer for you.  Yesterday I was going through a copy of the 1945 Pilots Notes for the Mustang Mk.IV/P-51D with a supplement of information relevant to detail difference for the pilot to be aware of for the Mustang Mk.IVa/P-51K.  This particular section I have included in the attached scan from the Pilots Notes provides a very interesting take on a difference between the P-51D and P-51K other than the propellor, especially when parking the aircraft.

 

P-51K Parking. by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

 

[Pappy]

58 minutes ago, ColFord said:

As you are modelling a Mustang Mk.IVa/P-51K, and the question of the main inner undercarriage doors up or down has arisen, plus usually along with that goes the question of flaps up or down if parked, well I think I have found an answer for you.  Yesterday I was going through a copy of the 1945 Pilots Notes for the Mustang Mk.IV/P-51D with a supplement of information relevant to detail difference for the pilot to be aware of for the Mustang Mk.IVa/P-51K.  This particular section I have included in the attached scan from the Pilots Notes provides a very interesting take on a difference between the P-51D and P-51K other than the propellor, especially when parking the aircraft.

 

P-51K Parking. by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

 

G'day Col,

 

That is a very interesting (and timely) nugget of information!

I have two questions:

 

Firstly, if I understand it correctly, it means that the flaps would be 'selected' to the down position rather than bleeding down?

 

Secondly, does the term 'fairing door'  refer to the inner undercarriage doors about which the 'bleed position' controversy revolves?

 

If so, then doors open seems like a standard operating procedure (per the manual) for P-51K ops.

 

Awesome info Col, many thanks,

 

Pappy

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Pappy

[ColFord]

Hi Pappy,

 

My understanding is that flaps would be selected  to the down position after the aircraft had been taxiied back in after landing and as a part of the shut down and parking process.  Putting flaps to the down position is to prevent ground crew and others stepping on the trailing edge of the flaps and using it as a step up to the cockpit area - why there is 'No Step' markings on inner edge of flap top surfaces.  By putting the flaps down, also on engine start up it is supposed to reduce hydraulic shock as the hydraulic system rebuilds pressure.  The term 'fairing door' does refer to the inner main undercarriage doors, just one of those lovely period pieces of naming nomenclature for which in an appendix to the pilots notes there is a US-UK glossary of terms.

 

So flaps down, main inner gear doors down is the normal arrangement, by the procedures in the Pilots Notes from 1945 with specific reference to the P-51K/Mustang Mk.IVa.

 

I was actually looking for some other operating procedure differences between the P-51D and P-51K when I came across this part of the Pilots Notes, always a topic which gets the discussion going.

 

 

[gingerbob]

That's interesting, Colin.  I suppose it begs the question of whether this new system is unique to the K, or pertains also to late Ds.  It seems to imply K only, but I wouldn't assume that's the full story.

 

To answer the canopy question, the real thing rides on three points- the side tracks at each front corner, and the central track aft.  So as it slides back, it also (back end) heads downhill.  Most plastic renderings are too thick to accurately follow this, however.  You can probably thin the inside edge of the canopy skirt at the interference points (assuming you're going to have it on one fixed position.  It is worth addressing, because a canopy/ hood that just sits atop the fuselage with no regard to how it actually fits really takes away from an otherwise good build.

[Pappy]

44 minutes ago, ColFord said:

Hi Pappy,

 

My understanding is that flaps would be selected  to the down position after the aircraft had been taxiied back in after landing and as a part of the shut down and parking process.  Putting flaps to the down position is to prevent ground crew and others stepping on the trailing edge of the flaps and using it as a step up to the cockpit area - why there is 'No Step' markings on inner edge of flap top surfaces.  By putting the flaps down, also on engine start up it is supposed to reduce hydraulic shock as the hydraulic system rebuilds pressure.  The term 'fairing door' does refer to the inner main undercarriage doors, just one of those lovely period pieces of naming nomenclature for which in an appendix to the pilots notes there is a US-UK glossary of terms.

 

So flaps down, main inner gear doors down is the normal arrangement, by the procedures in the Pilots Notes from 1945 with specific reference to the P-51K/Mustang Mk.IVa.

 

I was actually looking for some other operating procedure differences between the P-51D and P-51K when I came across this part of the Pilots Notes, always a topic which gets the discussion going.

 

 

Righto. open doors (sorry, fairing doors) it is then.

I expect tthat being produced at a different factory and having a different designation meant that there may have been an oportunity for some operational lessons to be incorporated into the dash 1?

29 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

That's interesting, Colin.  I suppose it begs the question of whether this new system is unique to the K, or pertains also to late Ds.  It seems to imply K only, but I wouldn't assume that's the full story.

 

To answer the canopy question, the real thing rides on three points- the side tracks at each front corner, and the central track aft.  So as it slides back, it also (back end) heads downhill.  Most plastic renderings are too thick to accurately follow this, however.  You can probably thin the inside edge of the canopy skirt at the interference points (assuming you're going to have it on one fixed position.  It is worth addressing, because a canopy/ hood that just sits atop the fuselage with no regard to how it actually fits really takes away from an otherwise good build.

 G'day,

 

Thanks very much to both of you, that is precisely the sort of gold dust I needed,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[Pappy]

G'day people,

 

It appears tha my Photobucket account is working once again. I can see my pictures on page 1 of this thread, but could someone else please confirm that they can also see the images as well?

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[Rabbit Leader]

Yes @Pappy, all your images are visible on both pages and what’s on display looks a real treat. 
Cheers.. Dave

[Pappy]

On 1/8/2020 at 6:07 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

Yes @Pappy, all your images are visible on both pages and what’s on display looks a real treat. 
Cheers.. Dave

Thanks Dave, PB seems to be playing nice again...........

 

G'day people,

 

Chrissy is now done and I am moving forwards again, camo going on!

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for looking,

 

Pappy

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Pappy

[Courageous]

Looking rather smart.

 

Stuart