Basilisk Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Most likely the most attractive Defiant during the Battle of Britain with the "Cock of the North" marking on its side. But does a picture exist of this aircraft? I had no luck in locating an image. Cheers, Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85sqn Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 I made that aircraft once. I have never seen a photo but found somewhere saying it might have been speculative or from anecdotal evidence. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Basilisk said: But does a picture exist of this aircraft? I had no luck in locating an image. The chap who is most likely to know is @AndyL who was or is writing a book on Defiants. Drop him a PM if he doesn't see this. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 15 hours ago, 85sqn said: I made that aircraft once. I have never seen a photo but found somewhere saying it might have been speculative or from anecdotal evidence. I saw your build which turned out very nice. 14 hours ago, Troy Smith said: The chap who is most likely to know is @AndyL who was or is writing a book on Defiants. Drop him a PM if he doesn't see this. HTH I will do that Troy. But it looks that there is no picture of this aircraft. Just wonder how the special marking was referenced from. Are there any other Defiants in camouflage scheme with some interesting markings of which a picture exists? Cheers, Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 In response to whether there are any photos of L7009, the answer is yes, but they are held in a private collection and the owner will not share the images. As to the profile, the spinners on 141 Squadron Defiants were black, not Sky - I've got several Battle of Britain images of their Defiants, and all are black. Between my 141 and 264 Squadron Defiant photos there's nothing outstanding in relation to them being adorned with artwork, though there was the fanciful suggestion that other 141 aircraft were called ' Cock Sure', 'Cocked for Firing' and a couple more that memory eludes me at the moment. However there's no evidence they existed, and the Cock of the North artwork refers to a song of that name, and is homage to Ian Donald's Scottish ancestry. As an aside, L7009 will be the cover image on my Defiant history, from a painting by Steven Heyen, the Australian artist. Regards Andy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, AndyL said: In response to whether there are any photos of L7009, the answer is yes, but they are held in a private collection and the owner will not share the images. Have you seen them? And is the profile accurate compared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Have you seen them? And is the profile accurate compared? No, but they were taken by an ex 141 air gunner who had lent the photos for copying but never had them back. He confirmed L7009 was suitably adorned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, AndyL said: No, but they were taken by an ex 141 air gunner who had lent the photos for copying but never had them back. so they basically been stolen, and the new "owner" then won't let them be seen. Do you know who has them and where they are? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, AndyL said: In response to whether there are any photos of L7009, the answer is yes, but they are held in a private collection and the owner will not share the images. As to the profile, the spinners on 141 Squadron Defiants were black, not Sky - I've got several Battle of Britain images of their Defiants, and all are black. Between my 141 and 264 Squadron Defiant photos there's nothing outstanding in relation to them being adorned with artwork, though there was the fanciful suggestion that other 141 aircraft were called ' Cock Sure', 'Cocked for Firing' and a couple more that memory eludes me at the moment. However there's no evidence they existed, and the Cock of the North artwork refers to a song of that name, and is homage to Ian Donald's Scottish ancestry. As an aside, L7009 will be the cover image on my Defiant history, from a painting by Steven Heyen, the Australian artist. Regards Andy Thanks Andy for your reply. A shame that the owner is not willing to share this image. Is it known if the cock painting on most artworks is the correct size and at the correct location? When will your book be published and who is the publisher? Would love to purchase a copy when published. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Cock of the North was not just a song, but a well known Gresley locomotive with the LNER, and before that I believe a stagecoach. It was also a well-known coaching inn on the old A1 just outside of Durham, unfortunately now demolished I fear but certainly "repurposed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Cock o' the North was the nickname of Alexander Gordon, 4th Duke of Gordon who raised the 92nd Foot Regiment that became the Gordon Highlanders. It is also the tiltle of a bagpipe tune/military march that the Gordon Highlanders adopted as their regimental march. There is a song that uses the tune but it is not a polite one. Auntie Mary had a canary Up the leg of her drawers; It whistled for hours among the flowers And won the Victoria Cross Aunty Judy's budgy went broody August Bank Holiday It laid her an egg the size of her head And frightened the cockerells away There are much more obscene versions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 21 hours ago, Troy Smith said: so they basically been stolen, and the new "owner" then won't let them be seen. Do you know who has them and where they are? This happened at the time when, if you were sent images, they had to come via the postal service, and there is always a possibility that they went missing in transit. But the originator certainly didn't get them back. I was lucky when my initial foray into 141 was in 1990 and there were quite a few squadron members still alive who were exceedingly generous in sending me photographs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 21 hours ago, Basilisk said: Thanks Andy for your reply. A shame that the owner is not willing to share this image. Is it known if the cock painting on most artworks is the correct size and at the correct location? When will your book be published and who is the publisher? Would love to purchase a copy when published. Cheers, Peter As to the size and location one can assume so until one of those photos surface! The publisher is Frontline/Pen & Sword and if I pull my finger out it should see light of day next year. It will include 250 - 300 photos; as an example I had access to the photo albums made Squadron Leader Phillip Hunter DSO OC 264 Squadron. I also have Defiant images taken at Hornchurch and Duxford during the Battle of Britain which are rather nice. So, we'll see how things pan out! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Alan Bardell Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Andy Good luck with the book - I will be looking out for this with my ££££'s ready to go! regards Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I was in contact with some 141 Squadron personnel back in the mid-1980s when I was researching RAF Grangemouth. Geoff Bailey, who subsequently wrote a book on Grangemouth may have been able to track others down. The book is here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grangemouth-Airfield-Special-Geoffrey-Bailey/dp/1904514316 Geoff works for Falkirk Community Trust:. You can contact him at Callendar House: https://www.falkirkcommunitytrust.org/whats-on/christmas/callendar-house/ John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, AndyL said: As to the size and location one can assume so until one of those photos surface! The publisher is Frontline/Pen & Sword and if I pull my finger out it should see light of day next year. It will include 250 - 300 photos; as an example I had access to the photo albums made Squadron Leader Phillip Hunter DSO OC 264 Squadron. I also have Defiant images taken at Hornchurch and Duxford during the Battle of Britain which are rather nice. So, we'll see how things pan out! Thanks Andy, looking forward seeing your book published. As the markings are to some degree speculative, this scheme is no longer an option as I only build aircraft of which I can locate some pictorial evidence. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Basilisk said: Thanks Andy, looking forward seeing your book published. As the markings are to some degree speculative, this scheme is no longer an option as I only build aircraft of which I can locate some pictorial evidence. Cheers, Peter Thanks Peter, that's much appreciated. Sad thing is that Battle of Britain Defiants didn't have anything else in the way of nose art, but when you get to the night fighter phase, more art, and names come to light - I've got flying pigs, parachuting pigs, and heraldic dragons to name but a few! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Andy: I am also very much looking forward to this book, it sounds like a must-have to me. Good luck with production and may all your turn-arounds be slick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 11:21 AM, AndyL said: In response to whether there are any photos of L7009, the answer is yes, but they are held in a private collection and the owner will not share the images. Looking forward to the book. Re the pics, sadly that's an attitude I've come across before, and not one I really understand, but each to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Just an update - Ian Donald was the pilot of L7009, and his family have been found. He was an exceptionally keen photographer ( as family members still are ) and they hold a lot of photographs taken by him, so we might just get to see an image of 'Cock of the North' after all. So, watch this space... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Fingers and other bits crossed! Any news on the book?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastterry Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Now all we need is a nice new 1/32 Defiant, to sit alongside the new Whirlwind, with artwork that older eyes can see without glasses. Come on Special Hobby you know you want to. TRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 12/8/2019 at 10:38 PM, Troy Smith said: so they basically been stolen, and the new "owner" then won't let them be seen. Quite understandable - if I was in possession of stolen pictures I guess i wouldn't be showing them off. Another class of owner who may be reluctant to show pictures is one who worries he will be persecuted for more once it is known he has some - I have come across a couple of those, for whom I have some sympathy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 18 hours ago, mackem01 said: Fingers and other bits crossed! Any news on the book?? Next year. Something called 2020 got in the way and due to a few issues I couldn't finish it. Trying to tie everything up by the end of the year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 25/10/2020 at 21:03, fastterry said: Now all we need is a nice new 1/32 Defiant, to sit alongside the new Whirlwind, with artwork that older eyes can see without glasses. Come on Special Hobby you know you want to. TRF Well that's a good idea if I've ever heard one. Wouldn't that be an interesting add to the collection?😁 before I built my 1/48 I had no appreciation for it, but now I love a good Defiant. One of my favourite parts of model building is the new found respect and knowledge of different aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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