Jump to content

Undercarriage bats and legs colour of Corsairs in FAA service


Simon Cornes

Recommended Posts

Says it all! I am building Corsair II JT228/6A of 1833NAS at Machrihsnish, 1943 from Xtradecal X48-102. So, would the gear bays be salmon pink or dark green - like the cockpit- or chromate green or Sky Grey? And what colour would the gear legs and wheel hubs be? Same as underside colour?

Any thoughts would be appreciated  

Thanks

Simon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Simon

I believe Salmon Pink only appeared on Corsair I. This question has been also debated in several threads, the following one among them:

There was another thread, titled FAA Corsair, with plenty of colour photos of Corsairs II. I saved it on my computer, but it must have gone missing as I cannot find it any more on BF. Nevertheless, it has been suggested that Sky is the most probable colour for wheel wells, undercarriage legs and wheel hubs, although there is at least one photo of factory fresh FAA Corsair with undercarriage legs and wheel hubs in USN Light Gray or perhaps even White. Cheers

Jure

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it is a Corsair MkII. Your best bet would be the underside colour, whichever you choose. There is still some debate as to whether it was a light grey or Sky. Personally I'd go with sky and have done for my Corsair MkII's. There is a possibility that some undercarriage legs were aluminium.

 

As I say, best bet is Sky, all of it. If you look up my builds, I did most with sky and one had aluminium undercarriage legs and hubs but with sky wheel wells. 

 

Best regards

 

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are lots of photos of FAA Corsair IIs after deck accidents, often showing the undercarriage bays clearly: I have never seen one in which the bays were not the underside colour.  As to what that colour was, like @85sqn  I did my three in Sky but since then @Dana Bell has published his two works on the Corsair.  Pp32-3 of Vol 2 reproduces the 4 Oct 1943 camouflage scheme drawings for the Corsair II: the colours are Army Dark Olive Drab (Dupont 1071-028), Sea Gray (Dupont 71-19324) and Sky (Dupont 71-021).  I believe that this latter is not the later ANA match for MAP Sky but the US greyish-sky colour.   I hope someone will put me right if I'm wrong there: I don't have time to check at the mo.  All paints were enamels so no difference between metal and fabric surfaces.

Edited by Seahawk
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

Says it all! I am building Corsair II JT228/6A of 1833NAS at Machrihsnish, 1943 from Xtradecal X48-102. So, would the gear bays be salmon pink or dark green - like the cockpit- or chromate green or Sky Grey? And what colour would the gear legs and wheel hubs be? Same as underside colour?

Any thoughts would be appreciated  

Thanks

Simon

Whats an undercarriage bat?🤪

 

Selwyn

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Selwyn said:

Whats an undercarriage bat?🤪

 

Selwyn

 

Listen Selwyn, if my typing was perfect it would say bay but Corsairs had bats don’t you know?!!!

 

Apart from that, seems like the colour is the underside shade, which in this case is US Sky Gray so light full gray seems the closest match. Thanks gents!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not quite, and clearly still causing some confusion.  Sky Grey was a specific colour used for under and side surfaces by the FAA up to September 1940.  Dupont did produce a paint to match this, but it was not that used on the Corsair (or indeed other US types).  The colour used, Dupont 71-021, was called Sky Type S Gray and was not a light grey but a reasonable (if not ideal) match for Sky, or Sky Type S as this was initially known.  Why Dupont added Gray to the title of their paint is not known.  This was never a US official colour.  The later ANA Sky was a good match to the MAP Sky.  This Dupont colour 71-021 is available from Colourcoats paint, see Sovereign Hobbies, as are other MAP and US colours used by the FAA.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Not quite, and clearly still causing some confusion.  Sky Grey was a specific colour used for under and side surfaces by the FAA up to September 1940.  Dupont did produce a paint to match this, but it was not that used on the Corsair (or indeed other US types).  The colour used, Dupont 71-021, was called Sky Type S Gray and was not a light grey but a reasonable (if not ideal) match for Sky, or Sky Type S as this was initially known.  Why Dupont added Gray to the title of their paint is not known.  This was never a US official colour.  The later ANA Sky was a good match to the MAP Sky.  This Dupont colour 71-021 is available from Colourcoats paint, see Sovereign Hobbies, as are other MAP and US colours used by the FAA.

Thanks Graham

I am quoting from the Xtradecal instruction sheet which refers to ANA 602, Light Gray - 

 

"Modern FS paints are not always direct equivalents of the original ANA version, for instance, FS 36440 Light Gull Gray is quoted for ANA 602 Light Gray. In 1944 ANA 602 was replaced by ANA 621 Dark Gull Gray (a seemingly strange choice!) yet it was included in TTC-C-595 of 1950 as (?)3635, which was then superceded by FS36440 Light Gull Gray in FS595 of 1956. The use of FS595 provides a modern equivalent GUIDE for modellers to the general appearance of a colour. Truer representations of the paints can be found on paint cards, such as those found in the US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Colour Guides by Elliott or US Army Air Service & Air Corps Aircraft Color Guide by Archer (Both Monogram) and USAAF Aircraft Markings & Camouflage 1941-7 by Archer (Schiffer)"

 

So, as a mere modeller I latch onto FS36440 Light Gull Gray as being equivalent to ANA 602 Light Gray (My mistake, shouldn't have said Sky Gray). On that same decal sheet instruction guide all of the other FAA American machines - Avenger/Wildcat/Hellcat clearly have Sky undersides as we would understand them. 

 

So, how does ANA602 Light Gray compare with Dupont 71-021 Sky Type S Gray? You say not grey at all. Very confusing!! Xtradecal clearly think its a shade of grey!! I've just looked at Colourcoats 71-021 and, on my screen at least, that is definitely a shade of grey, no green in it whatsoever, but then my eyes may need adjusting!! A bit like duck egg blue versus duck egg green! 

 

Thanks for the input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely into the duck egg range.  There are good colour photos of it in use on Hudsons.  I used to refer to 71-021 as a greyish form of Sky but had my knuckles firmly rapped by Nick Millman, who was responsible for finding the appropriate colour chart and definitely One Who Knows These Things.

 

I must admit being far from clear exactly when the ANA colours actually came into use, but suspect after this October ruling (post 4 by Seahawk).  Note that this does not say Light Grey, or give any ANA reference.  This looks very much as if based on the acceptable US substitute colours rather than the US/UK agreed common ANA colours.   Why Vought may later or at any time have used Light Grey (any light grey) rather than Sky (any Sky) is beyond me, unless they were somehow being constrained by availability.  Possibly some twist on the Lend Lease requirements for aircraft to be handed over as if straight from US stocks?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose it’s the ‘Fog of War’ coming into  play again. Wonder what Paul Lucas would say? I’m going to stick with my light grey anyway- and until someone produces  an accurate colour print of that particular airframe I can be blissfully ignorant! My main query was about the gear bay and gear leg colours so it would seem as though the undersurface colour - whatever it may be - will do, although I might leave my tail gear bay in Vought dark green but paint the inside of all gear doors in ‘underside colour’ I noticed a photo of an inverted Corsair (crashed on deck) with a stripey hook so I think that will be black stripes on ‘underside colour’ and not white as that’s a debate I don’t need!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said:

I am quoting from the Xtradecal instruction sheet which refers to ANA 602, Light Gray - 

 

 

Like Graham, I believe the Xtradecal instructions are well out of order here. Use 71-021 if you have it, or just use a good MAP Sky. It will be closer than any actual grey.

Your aircraft would be the same colours as these Corsairs mark I.

Corsair_Mk1_Quonset_Point_1943.jpg

Edited by Work In Progress
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

Listen Selwyn, if my typing was perfect it would say bay but Corsairs had bats don’t you know?!!!

 

Apart from that, seems like the colour is the underside shade, which in this case is US Sky Gray so light full gray seems the closest match. Thanks gents!!

You need a new Trypewriter!

 

Selwyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

I've just looked at Colourcoats 71-021 and, on my screen at least, that is definitely a shade of grey, no green in it whatsoever, but then my eyes may need adjusting!! A bit like duck egg blue versus duck egg green! 

 

Thanks for the input.

 

You need to compare it to a genuine grey, not just look at a render in isolation:

 

71-021

ACRN36_e04d3b4e-eaf8-444c-bab0-d29bf4ca7

ACUS01rgb_1024x1024.jpg?v=1571438803

FS36440

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Seahawk said:

and Sky (Dupont 71-021).  I believe that this latter is not the later ANA match for MAP Sky but the US greyish-sky colour.   I hope someone will put me right if I'm wrong there: I don't have time to check at the mo.

 

re Du-Pont 71-021

  

On 11/01/2019 at 18:37, LDSModeller said:

There is No such thing as DuPont Sky Grey - The correct term for the paint you are referring

to, is Sky Type S - Grey which is a Duck Egg Blue Colour, such as on this P40E-1 Swatch

in my collection

5f5bf348-e74d-4e5d-bcb4-1eb404e9165f.JPG

 

On 11/01/2019 at 20:01, LDSModeller said:

My paint Swatch above, the lower colour is DuPont 71-021 Sky Type S - Grey

the real actual colour. - As you can see there is nothing Grey about it - The Grey suffix

was added by DuPont, quite possibly to differentiate between the RAF and US versions and possibly

referring to it's production process, but the Colour is a Pale Blue with a greenish tinge

Unfortunately lots of Supposed Experts who have never actually seen the colour will tell you its grey:hmmm:

and again unfortunately unsuspecting modellers take these experts at their word - been there done that

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

2 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

So, how does ANA602 Light Gray compare with Dupont 71-021 Sky Type S Gray? You say not grey at all. Very confusing!! Xtradecal clearly think its a shade of grey!! I've just looked at Colourcoats 71-021 and, on my screen at least, that is definitely a shade of grey, no green in it whatsoever, but then my eyes may need adjusting!! A bit like duck egg blue versus duck egg green! 

 

it doesn't, and AFAIK, the underside color for Lend Lease FAA types using US ANA paint was ANA 610 Sky.

(Xtradecal talk out of their bottom on occasion BTW.)

Regarding model paint, you won't find better researched paints than Colourcoats,  as @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies  as you can see is posting here, and takes input from noted researchers on the subject.

 

For acrylic, hunting about for Vallejo matches for colours,  I found that 70.885 Pastel Green

5e4bb1a7e78bf46499b7a579243a6fa1.jpg

 

quoted as FS 34424 , which is quoted as being ANA 610.

The Vallejo colour is slightly greyer and paler than the MAP Sky chip in the RAF museum book,  that's a visual match by me. 

 

HTH

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

Like Graham, I believe the Xtradecal instructions are well out of order here. Use 71-021 if you have it, or just use a good MAP Sky. It will be closer than any actual grey.

Your aircraft would be the same colours as these Corsairs mark I.

Corsair_Mk1_Quonset_Point_1943.jpg

MkII’s old boy. The last three of the serials are on the nose. MkI’s finished at JT195

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Attached are some images that may help (or further hinder)! 

First up is a less saturated version of the Corsairs as posted above:

 

culgLPo.jpg

 

Next is a further photo (probably from the same session) showing the wing undersurface a bit better:

 

xMaYy5I.jpg

 

And finally, the wartime Dupont 'color' chart showing their RAF colours:

 

rYQAdvp.jpg

 

Note the hue of 71-021....

 

The usual caveat that your monitor may show the colours differently to someone elses and this is a rough guide!!!!

 

Cheers,

Pete M. :smartass:

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep- the FAA Corsairs worked up at Quonset Point, Rhode island and Brunswick, Maine. Both air stations were loaned to the Admiralty for use in training FAA Martlet, Wildcat, Avenger, and Corsair pilots.

Mike

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...