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Enzo Matrix

P-51 Mustang Reference

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Stuart,

 

RAF Allison engined Mustangs, being the Mustang Mk.I supplied under direct purchase contract between NAA and the British Government, then the later orders for the P-51/Mustang Mk.IA and P-51A/Mustang Mk.II which were provided under Lend Lease, definitely did not have the underwing downward id lights.  Photo of RAF Mustang Mk.IA underside, no underwing downward id lights, just a blank panel. 

 

49303935066_440947aefd_z.jpgmustang_01 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

Merlin engined Mustangs P-51B/C = Mustang Mk.III and P-51D/Mustang Mk.IV and P-51K/Mustang Mk.IVa, were provided under Lend Lease and as such had the US installed underwing downward id lights fitted. 

Edited by ColFord

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54 minutes ago, ColFord said:

definitely did not have the underwing downward id lights.

Cheers Colin, much appreciated. That means my Mustang II will have no id lights and the III, will :yes:.

19 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

main undercarriage door shape

Cheers, leave doors alone, -D :yes:.

 

Stuart

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A helpful [sic] hint: I ain't pointing no fingers, but I see a lot of Mustang builds where the main gear is not at the right (front to back) angle.  While this is not a precise recipe, a good rule of thumb is that the leading edge of the gear door (oleo leg cover) is about parallel with the angled firewall line between cowling and cockpit.

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How come i see alot of black painted cockpits with the original green showing through and the YZC not on some late models?  

Were most of the later models done like this?  Reference photos are confusing.

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1 hour ago, Beazer said:

How come i see alot of black painted cockpits with the original green showing through and the YZC not on some late models?  

Were most of the later models done like this?  Reference photos are confusing.

Are those cockpits in F-51Ds rather than P-51Ds?  I gather that re-painting black of Mustang cockpits took place postwar.  I'm ready to be corrected here.

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1 hour ago, JosephLalor said:

Are those cockpits in F-51Ds rather than P-51Ds?  I gather that re-painting black of Mustang cockpits took place postwar.  I'm ready to be corrected here.

I guess delivered after the war.  Not built during.

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Found a snippet online during my research.

 

The designation F-51D came in 1948 when the USAAF became the USAF.

Starting in 1950 the cockpits were painted black, mostly the side walls and bottom part of the armor plate, the rest was already mostly black.

Some Mustangs sold to foreign countries retained the IG cockpit, it really has to do with when they were sold and where they were before that.

USAF F-51Ds involved in the Korean war all had a black cockpit.

Most of these F-51Ds (check your references) were fully painted silver this included the wheel wells.

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P-51D Mustang kits in 1/72...

 

First generation

 

From top to bottom Lindberg (1955), Airfix I (1958) and Revell (1963). Albeit with short wings the Lindberg kit has the best shape concerning the fuselage. Fits almost to an Tamiya, Hasegawa or even Matchbox. Airfix and Revell has some strange panellines compared to the real thing.

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Second generation

 

Airfix II (1974)...

 

...Matchbox (1973)...

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...Heller (1974)...

 

...and Hasegawa I (1974)...

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Third generation

 

Academy (1987/93) and Italeri (1988).

 

 

Fourth generation

 

Hasegawa II (1994)...

 

...Tamiya (2000)...

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...and Airfix II (2012)...

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And we also have the kits from HobbyBoss...

 

...Forces of Valor...

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...and Starfix (Matchboxcopy)...

 

 

(Editing is on. More pictures are coming)

 

Cheers / André 

Edited by Andre B
Editing...

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On 12/31/2019 at 12:02 PM, ColFord said:

Stuart,

 

RAF Allison engined Mustangs, being the Mustang Mk.I supplied under direct purchase contract between NAA and the British Government, then the later orders for the P-51/Mustang Mk.IA and P-51A/Mustang Mk.II which were provided under Lend Lease, definitely did not have the underwing downward id lights.  Photo of RAF Mustang Mk.IA underside, no underwing downward id lights, just a blank panel. 

 

49303935066_440947aefd_z.jpgmustang_01 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

Merlin engined Mustangs P-51B/C = Mustang Mk.III and P-51D/Mustang Mk.IV and P-51K/Mustang Mk.IVa, were provided under Lend Lease and as such had the US installed underwing downward id lights fitted. 

 

I like those guns. Brittish installed or... ?

 

Cheers / André

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15 minutes ago, Andre B said:

 

I like those guns. Brittish installed or... ?

 

Cheers / André

Certainly British specified. Whether they were installed by NAA or later I don’t know, but I’ve seen a picture of a IA at the factory with stubs instead of the guns.

 

I’m off to find the picture I’m thinking of....

 

Trevor

 

EDIT

 

here you go....

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/mustang-mk-ia-photo.50305/

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Under the Lend Lease contract for the purchase of the P-51/Mustang MkIA, as supplied to the RAF, the aircraft came with, in a box within the bigger shipping crate containing the airframe in major components, four Oldsmobile manufactured, US supplied 20mm Hispano cannons.  In the original configuration as designed by NAA to accommodation the US manufactured Hispano cannon, they had 'flat' external recoil springs forward of the stubs.  There are a couple of photos around of one of the first Mustang Mk.IA received by RAF, the standard all angles view photos taken of a new type before testing commenced at A&AEE that show Mustang Mk.IA in RAF markings with the US cannon installed.  Early testing by A&AEE, plus early Squadron trials during work up, identified numerous issues with the NAA designed mounts and the US manufactured cannon.  As a result, RAF redesigned the cannon mounts, beefing the mounts up signifcantly and making changes to the spent shell and link ejection chutes, plus changes to the cannon feeds.  They also replaced the US manufactured cannon with UK manufactured Hispano Mk.II cannon.  Key visual identification of this change is the lack of external recoil spring forward of the stub - basically presenting a smooth barrel forward of the stub except for the locking nut at the end of the barrel, and the large metal locking collar on the forward edge of the stub. Problems then largely resolved.  The US manufactured Oldsmobile 20mm Hispano cannon were passd to the RAF Regiment for use as ground based AA weapons or on light armoured vehicles used by the RAF Regiment.

 

Same as for the Mustang Mk.I, armament was supplied, but was shipped in a separate crate in the larger aircraft shipping crate, then degreased, serviced and installed once aircraft re-erected after arrival in the UK.

 

And I'll stomp on the notion now, Mustang Mk.I armament was 4 x US manufactured 0.50in Browning HMGs and 4 x US manufactured 0.30 Browning MGs, RAF did NOT replace the 0.30in MGs with 0.303in MGs.

 

 

 

 

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The 1/72 scale Pavla tail for early P-51D with parts (Not only a tail. I like those parts for the cooler)...

 

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Compared to other tails.

 

Tamiya...

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...and from tip to bottom: Tamiya again, Hasegawa (old), and Airfix...

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Cheers / André

 

 

Edited by Andre B

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One of the greatest issues I encounter is the reliability of restored planes. For example: the fuel gauge of the tank behind the pilot. I've seen a picture where it is all black (the little pole on which it is mounted), yet another one shows a bracket around it. How can you be sure which is the correct one? The instructions state this little pole (and the bracket on which the radio and battery are mounted) should be Yellow Zinc Chromate. 

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What whas actually the color of the navigation lights? Zoukei-Mura states red and blue, while I do not know better than red and green? 

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The glass was usually tinted blue which then gave a green light. Some aircraft have coloured bulbs and clear cover glass, others have clear bulbs and coloured cover glass. Original P-51s have those of the latter sort. To be honest, even if most starboard navigation lights appear blue when switched off, I have always painted them greenish since my early days - as kind of a trademark 😉

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On 1/25/2020 at 1:19 PM, Andre B said:

...and from tip to bottom: Tamiya again, Hasegawa (old), and Airfix...

spacer.png

 

Cheers / André

I've come to this subject a bit late but hope I can ask about the tail fillet. I'm doing THIS in 1/48 and was quite happy until I found THIS. So the fillet was added after completing combat service. How was this done? A replacement tail? A conversion kit? That may explain the different panel arrangements in that area as shown in your picture above.

 

I've also got to convert the hinged hood to a sliding one but one thing at a time :D   

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11 hours ago, SleeperService said:

I've come to this subject a bit late but hope I can ask about the tail fillet. I'm doing THIS in 1/48 and was quite happy until I found THIS. So the fillet was added after completing combat service. How was this done? A replacement tail? A conversion kit? That may explain the different panel arrangements in that area as shown in your picture above.

 

I've also got to convert the hinged hood to a sliding one but one thing at a time :D   

Hi,

What I knew the short story is that it was both made at the assembly line with later P-51D's during construction and "in the field" on earlier P-51 B/C and D variants with a conversion kit. No new tail was needed. And some aircrafts also got the fillet after the war. So yes, it explains different panel arrangements.

Cheers / André 

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Thank You Andre for the fast and helpful reply. I was getting rather confused.

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