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Enzo Matrix

P-51 Mustang Reference

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A word on (Merlin) props, since I've already seen "the usual confusion" pop up in a thread:

 

The initial production standard, which was pretty consistent during WWII (at least ETO) was the Hamilton Standard cuffed prop.  This one's pretty obvious, since it has the big ol' cuffs that make for airfoil shape all the way to the spinner.

 

The P-51K (aka Mustang IVA in RAF) used an Aeroproducts prop.  This looks completely different... yeah, it still has four blades, but....  The Aeroproducts prop had a more typical blade shape: round at the root, getting wider as it moved outward, then tapering back toward a rounded tip.  It also used a different spinner, which while about the same (if not identical) in outline, had differently shaped blade cutouts.  I think that they also "sat" at a slightly different point fore/aft on the spinner, but don't remember for certain.  (The photo at the top of this page shows it well.)

 

Very late PTO, and quite common postwar and in Korea, a cuffless Hamilton Standard was introduced.  This - wait for it - deleted the cuff!  But the outer blade shape remained about the same as the traditional Mustang prop- relatively constant chord, and a square or 'squarish' tip, not at all like the svelte Aeroproducts blade.

 

There were vibration problems with the Aeroproducts props (if not problems, at least annoyances).  Consequently, you will see some "P-51Ks" that have had Ham Standard props fitted.

Edited by gingerbob

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Another thing that gets confused is which designations equate to which.  Here's a summary I did for the 2014 GB:
 

Quote

 

And just to help keep it straight:

Allison powered:

NA-73X: prototype

NA-73: Mustang I (AG___ serials), XP-51 (2)

NA-83: Mustang I [Some detail differences from NA-73]

NA-91: Mustang IA, P-51 [no suffix], F-6A

NA-97: A-36 (aka A-36A) (Mustang I (dive bomber)- one sent for trials, returned to USAAF in UK)

NA-99: P-51A, Mustang II, F-6B

Merlin powered (except noted):

NA-101: XP-51B (2)

Mustang X: Rolls-Royce Merlin conversions of Mustang I (5, I think)

(for simplicity, I'm going to drop the NA numbers now)

P-51B, Mustang III, F-6C

P-51C, Mustang III, F-6C (C same as B, Dallas built)

P-51D, Mustang IV

XP-51F (Mustang V): experimental lightweight

XP-51G (Mustang V): experimental lightweight (different Merlin)

P-51H: production form "semi-lightweight"

XP-51J: experimental lightweight, Allison engine

P-51K, Mustang IVa, F-6K: Dallas built, as D but Aeroproducts prop

P-51M: one only, built at Dallas, apparently D with new model Merlin.

[Edit: P-51N: no idea- a few weeks ago I was looking at documents at the US National Archives, and saw this in the list!]

 

That might help a few, and confuse some others!

bob

p.s. I'm unfairly omitting the Commonwealth-built ones...

 

 

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On 13/10/2017 at 20:46, Troy Smith said:

  

On 13/10/2017 at 20:31, polo1112 said:

About the P-51 wing would you say that the entire wing was painted the same colour (as like a dope),

and, of course all the rivets flushed down. In this case it is of course normal that you only can see ONE shade

of (bare ?) natural metal finish.

 

silver paint

p51szpachla-jpg.184914

  

On 13/10/2017 at 20:31, polo1112 said:

But what's the matter with the fuselage and tail-planes , fin ,rudder, and so on ?

Are these also painted this uniform silver paint in, or can we imagine they are different colours shades, according to the different

alloys that were used on the Mustang ?

 

fabric parts,silver paint.

wartime color showing wing, note silver rudder on PE-X

cawi_51h_7.jpg

 

HTH

Copied from this discussion:

 

 

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@Robert Stuart Although this drawing keeps reappearing it seems not to be a correct representation of the panel line and rivet fillings.

Read here, bottom of page 28 (John Terrell) :

 

 

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Yes, this one. Sorry it‘s on page 28 of the thread. The drawing at the end, I think, is supposed to show the correct wing treatment.

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A question for the clever ones. The P-51A/ Mustang II I believe have a shallower fuselage compared to the Merlin powered variants. I have read that the cockpits of these Mustang II's were sitting on top of the wing, whereas the Merlins were raised and had wooden decks? Did the Mustang II's have these wooden decks too, painted with black rubber or...

 

TIA

 

Stuart

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No, cockpit floor was the uppersurface of the wing, just like the other Allison Mustangs.  Not sure how it was finished, now that you mention it...

A moment later: a quick look in the P-51A maintenance manual gives the cockpit finish as "yellow-green", and, as far as I noticed, didn't say anything different about the floor.  And another moment: You can see a hint of the floor in the cockpit shots on this page.

Edited by gingerbob

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1 hour ago, Golikell said:

cushions

I'm pretty sure that they didn't have cushions, pilots use to sit on their parachute.

 

Stuart

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British order ones no. Lend-Lease ones yes.

 

Trevor

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24 minutes ago, Courageous said:

I'm pretty sure that they didn't have cushions, pilots use to sit on their parachute.

 

Stuart

Okay. The Hasegawa kit has one, in the back and I've seen some yellow painted yellow. 🤔

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33 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

British order ones no. Lend-Lease ones yes.

Cheers for that Trevor, makes both my builds as L-L.

 

Stuart

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Earlier question on seat back cushion colours, see this build thread here on Britmodeller where this question came up. Page 5 of build thread.

 

 

RAF Allison engined Mustangs, did not have the underwing downward id lights.  AM on their 1/48th scale kits got the inclusion of the US id lights on the RAF subjects wrong.  Also on the A-36 they got it wrong as well, as the downward id lights on the A-36 were on the underside of the radiator intake assembly 'dog house'.  (The RAF Mustang Mk.I reference thread in WW2 discussion here in Britmodeller covers this and includes a diagram of the A-36 downward lights.)  Later Merlin engined ones, check references for your chosen subject aircraft.

 

Undercarriage bays of the RAF Allison Mustangs, as originally finished in NAA finish - natural metal, Z-C rear spar.  However, RAF soon discovered that what might work for anti-corrosion control in a warm dry California climate, working off a sealed airfield, didn't cut it operating off a wet, damp, muddy grass airfield in a UK winter.  Therefore RAF soon added as a modification on receipt in UK, or when aircraft went back into a MU for first major servicing, adding a single overall coat of aluminium laquer paint as a sealant and barrier coat to inside of undercarriage bays. Made it easier for the ground crews to keep it clean and for inspection purposes.

 

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Thank you very much... :) That does mean however that I have to repaint it (went for yellow) while the cockpit is already mounted in the starboard halve of the fuselage 😕 Oh well... The life of a modeller... 

 

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5 hours ago, ColFord said:

RAF Allison engined Mustangs, did not have the underwing downward id lights. 

Hi Colin, I asked this question recently and was informed that lend-lease Mustangs destined for the RAF did have id lights. Can you confirm/ deny please?

 

Stuart

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