Another Victory Build

[Moarein]

Hi Jim.
Quite a difficult model to start with - congratulations. In about a week I will start it the same Heller in 1/100 - long ago sitting on a shelf, and waiting for a line  
I also think about using copper tape for the hull - we'll see how it works out, so far I haven't worked with such material.

 

I have some recommendations for you, I hope you are not offended:

1. The dead eyes should be black, as should the ropes that connect them. All standing rigging is black. Don"t look only the museum copy - try try to find the book - Anatomy of the ship for HMS Victory.
2. The nets on the shell where the beds are is too sterile for me - too white, you can carefully spray them with an airbrush with a slightly beige paint, make them more realistic.
3. Try to fine-tune the borders between black and yellow on the hull - in places it's not very good.
4. Try to make some parts of the masts from wood - it is more solid. You can use beech or oak.
5. Use only synthetic threads for rigging - they have no hair

I will follow the topic with interest!
Good luck!

[Murdo]

Some really fabulous work going on there!

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Murdo

[steve5]

cheers jim , wish I knew how to do that blog stuff , I am no computer geek 😃 , from what I have seen of your skills mate , you don't need me interfering . I see where moarein said about the dead eyes , I think he is right , but I did mine in the lighter tones , just so you could see the work that goes into them .

[Jim Bates]

Hi Moarein Thanks for your comments Will blacken my dead eyes. I have Longridge's book that I use for reference. Will take the rest of your comments on board Thanks. Know what you mean about the masts I inserted brass rod to stiffen them up.

As you can see I used copper tape it's very easy to put on. The gun ports will need thickening up as well.

 

Will you be posting once you get started I will be interested in how you get on.

Your Le Soleil is brilliant.

 

For the Fore and Main mast Lashing have used seven turns of 50 thread 

 

[Moarein]

Yes, yes - I will post my Victory here, when I'm started, just need a few days to finish the Batavia.

Nice blocks You have! 

[Jim Bates]

Starting to attach the various blocks to the mast's and doing my best not to miss any out as I doubt my ability to do a good job fitting them once the masts are in place.

In Longridge's book there is a good drawing of the Foremast with the position of the blocks. But not the mainmast.

 So am I right to assume the Mainmast will have the same blocks attached as the Foremast?

Fitted out the knight head with the rings ect inserted brass rod in the base for a better fix to the deck.  Made the bumpkin booms out of wood as the plastic ones are to flimsy.

Nearly ready to fit the bowsprit.

 

 

 

 

  Foremast blocks done.

 

[Jim Bates]

Planted the bowsprit in this morning it was never a good fit in the bow section on glueing carefully lined everything up with supports will leave it a while.

 

 

[beefy66]

Hi Jim looking great so far not sure if these images will be of any help to you.

 

 

 

 

I have a few more if any good

 

beefy

[Jim Bates]

5 hours ago, beefy66 said:

Hi Jim looking great so far not sure if these images will be of any help to you.

 

 

 

 

I have a few more if any good

 

beefy

Thanks Beefy It's more the information of where to put the blocks on the mast that I am after.

     

Jim

[steve5]

hope this helps jim

https://postimg.cc/gallery/PdtHhX2

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by steve5

[Jim Bates]

Thanks Steve Every thing helps.

Now have the bowsprit in place and was mightily relieved to see that when the supports was removed it stayed in place and just a little bit clear of the crown.

 Have blackened the dead eyes thanks lads for the info, I had not used the Heller dead eyes because and they haden't a groove for the shrouds to sit in

so they would have to be glued in place before fitting the shrouds. Masts temporary in place.

 

  

 

[Jim Bates]

Started on the gunport lids increasing the thickness and attaching the hinges but when I opened the red paint lid found the inside had gone solid.

Plan B Gammoning the easiest way for me to thread the gammoning through the struts was to glue the end of the thread and put a slight kink in it making the end solid.

 

 

 

[colsom]

Hi Jim,

I only found you thread yesterday and have read it all with great interest.  When I purchased the Heller Victory kit new it cost around £35 I think. That was over 40 yrs ago! Having only ever badly built Airfix kits as a child up to that point little did I realise what I had taken on. At that time there was no internet to turn to. It never occurred to me that many many enhancements could be made to improve the look of the ship. I started the kit off and got as far completing most things up to top deck level. Then the kids made an appearance. What with long work hours Victory was shelved and remained shelved until I retired 3 years ago. It was an inch thick in dust and bits had gone missing. The idea was to have a go at Airfix kits again first so started looking around for inspiration. I really couldn't believe the lengths that people go to to make kits look realistic. I went to a show at Hinkley which was even more of an eye opener. As tempted as I was to get into the aircraft I decided to get stuck into Victory. It took quite a while to clean off the dust and repaint as much as I could. Some cannons had come loose and were rattling around inside. I had to carefully remove the stern and, using  a long piece of wire I managed to refit them all. Surprisingly they were all still there. I had to manufacture some bits as well such as the bell and the top to the bell housing. I think I was at the point of starting the bowsprit. It was then that I, along with anybody else who had bought the kit, realised that the the instructions are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot. But for online images of the real Victory and some imagination I would have given up. I didn't know until just recently that books are available about the anatomy of ships. However, as this is basically a retirement project I made the decision 3 years ago that I would just work it through as per the paper thingy with pictures in it. I have spent hours pouring over the pictures trying to figure out where all the ropes go. What a bloody nightmare! 30 years ago I stained the threads with tea as per the instructions. 3 year ago I realised that rigging is either black or grey. With more knowledge I should have bought after market coloured thread but instead I painted them with a very dilute mix of enamel paint. Apart from the smell it served a purpose although it did make the thread a little stiff. When it came to the hammocks I had a go with the frame that came supplied with the kit. Useless!! I finished up with an incredibly stiff mess. I spent ages trying to think what I could use when the bottom of our net curtains caught my eye. As luck would have it they were too long anyway so I cut a couple of inches off the bottom. Before you ask, yes, my wife was ok with it!! They look surprisingly ok. (I think).  I am at the point now where I have all the component parts of all the masts made but not assembled. I lost count of the hours spent tying pullies. I am about to start on the shrouds. Hoping the frame supplied would be better than the one for the hammocks I made a start a couple of days ago. Another instruction book shambles! I can see that basically the idea is good. What would make it better would have been if some hapless Heller employee had been tasked to build the kit as per the instructions. Heller might then have realised how crap they are. After spending 2 or 3 hours I sort of managed to get the vertical threads onto the frame. Knowing how badly some things have fitted I thought that before adding the ratlines I'd better offer the frame up to where the shrouds fit into the ram heads. Unsurprisingly some are way out of line. I don't know if mistakes were made in translating the instructions but the numbers given for the notches on the frame don't match the position of the ram heads. I am very tempted to fit the mast then  fit the lines afterwards. As always with this build it's three steps forward and one back. It's a good job that for things like this I have endless patience.

 

I have to say that having looked at quite a few builds on Britmodeller, especially Daffi's, I was over the moon to find your's as you're not far away from me in the build. I am impressed with all the extra's you have added to the point where, in some ways I wish had gone down that route but I felt that, as I was so far on with the build when I returned to it, that adding "extras" would look a bit odd. It's been a great learning curve so far. My ambition is to have a go at Caldercraft's wooden version. It looks really impressive. Following a casual enquiry I was told by them that build time is estimated between 2000 and 3000 hours! I will continue to watch your build with great interest. 

 

Colin

 

[Jim Bates]

Hi Colin Wow loads of writing, Have read with interest sounds like you are much like myself in the model department. 

Best way to fit the shrouds is to erect the masts and then fit the shrouds to them. Forget the Heller jig I hope to be at that stage in a few weeks time. There is a useful u tube on rigging that explains the process. 

The Deadeyes could be used with care but will have to be glued. As you have not built the masts it’s well worth making them stiffer as I have done. 

I am no expert as this is my first kit as you would know after reading so far, when I look at what I have accomplished so far and I am impressed with how it’s turning out.

Please fill free to get in touch with any problems I might be able to help.

[colsom]

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for the reply and thanks for the youtube tip which I've had a look at. Guess tomorrow the Heller rig will get tossed to one side. By the time I've finished this project there will be a real mix of different methods. If I can ever figure out how to post pictures on here I'll let you see where I am with things.

In the meantime have a look at the link below. It's the build manuals and prototype photos of the Caldercraft wooden kit which Cornwall Model Boats sent me when I enquired. They are really impressive with some good photos you may find useful. I'd forgotten I had them so I'll also be looking for ideas.

 

 http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Manuals_Victory.htm

 

Colin.

[Jim Bates]

Hi Colin Thank you for manuals download will look through it later.

I had trouble posting pictures to this site when I first started this blog, I opened up a flickr account and uploaded reduced size pictures to it then it's a easy matter to copy and paste in here. Hope this helps

[Jim Bates]

Went through the Jokita plans that Colin kindly posted for me and found some more blocks to attach to the masts must have them all now.

After fitting the two blocks for the davits on the Mizen mast. The mizen mast finally was lowered into place adding a shroud around the base that I have seen on a photo.

 

[Jim Bates]

There are points in the project where you strive to get to then all of a sudden you arrive there to great satisfaction. One of these for me is installing all of the masts yes finally got them fixed to the decks.

I can now start thinking about the rigging but first must finish the gun ports.

The Mizzen mast picture.

 

[colsom]

Hi Jim,

 

You clearly spend waaaaay too much time in your modelling cave 🤣🤣🤣

 

Quite by chance I found that I could look through all your Flickr pics. It's interesting to see all the extras you've added. I wish now that I had kept a photo record. 

 

I'm interested to know how you've fabricated the fixing loops under the dead eyes. Have I got the terminology right here or should it be ram heads? The parts list refers to the pulleys as dead eyes but the paragraph on how to rig them refers to them as ram heads.

 

40 years ago I just followed the instructions and placed the thread loops through the hull. I can live with them although I wouldn't be averse to cutting them all off and doing something that looks less naff. If I keep the thread loops I have no intention of attaching the ram heads/dead eyes to the loops with more thread. Partly as it would look crap with a knotted thread but mainly because it would be impossible to tie a knot and still keep the loop taught. I've experimented with copper wire by twisting 3 strands together very tightly but even after painting they don't look right  they don't look brilliant. I've just ordered some 0.5mm black wire from Ebay to see how that looks. Only 2 quid so no great loss if it doesn't work. 

 

My  build work will slow down now the weather is better as well as lockdown easing. Caravan and fishing will take priority!

 

Col.

 

 

[Jim Bates]

Hi Colin

Have lots of spare time at the moment and like to keep the momentum going 😃

For the channel irons I have used Etch Parts for HMS Victory 1:100 ...from www.dafinismus.de › thay will be on Plate 3. I think you mentioned his site before?

These extra etch parts are 1st class you will find all the relevant information for fitting on the site and there are spares included as well.

You are right about the loops I remember reading about them in the plans so didnt go down that road I would recommend you cut off the thread loops and start again  the etch may seem expensive at first glance but would save you loads of time and look good on your Victory.

 

Keep in touch do your hobby when you can. Jim

 

Slowly getting the gun ports done.

 

[Moarein]

Hi Jim,

When you started the shrouds, it's better to remove the topmast heels and caps. 
It will be easy to make shrouds without them.

When You finish the shrouds, You can return them on place

 

Good luck! 

[steve5]

moarein , is 100% correct jim , it will make the shrouds way easier to do , and the build more enjoyable .

[Jim Bates]

Thanks for the tips Moarein and Steve not keen to disassemble but will see how things go.

Slow but steady progress on the gun port lids looking through the plans found I hadn't fitted the blocks for the three boats on deck will probably not fit all the boats on the deck I will fit at least one on the davits.

The pegs are to give a bit of tension to the ropes.

 

[beefy66]

Looks like a lot of washing pegs I do hope you permission to use them from the missus  

 

So many tips coming from your build there Jim really looking forward to more everytime I look in keep it coming  

 

beefy

[Jim Bates]

Thanks for the smiles Beefy.

After watching David Krump's u tube on how to tie ratlines a couple of times and making notes,  I had a go myself quite chufed with how things went till I looked at the pictures of my progress !!!!!

I will have to start again but it's been a good confidence builder. Hight of the deadeyes looks about right to me.

David uses C U quite a lot on his knots I tend to use P V A what is best.