Getting Back on the Horse! - 1/72 Revell P-47M

[Kushan_Farsight]

My very first BM Build Log! 

So, i have been away from scale modelling for quite a while. For one reason or another, my free time generally over the past few years has strayed more into 3D printing (part of my business), RC Planes, and Model Rocketry.
However as the temp dropped and the days started getting shorter, in the few weeks run up to IPMS Telford, i started having a browse around BritModeller, and between the camaraderie and build logs on here, and the great examples i saw at Telford, my flame was thoroughly rekindled. A trip up to the loft (plus 2 tesco bags full from Telford) made me realise i actually have been building up quite a stash, that would never ever get smaller if i didn't start working on a few kits!

I've had an Aoshima FW-189, barely started, with no instructions, which i had given up all motivation (p.s, anyone with instructions i would be ETERNALLY grateful if you could send me a scan!) and had sat in the corner of the desk for about 2 years. Deciding that was a bit of a non-starter for the minute, i chose to get cracking on a P-47M by Revell, and actually get a complete model out the door!  

 

Paint scheme colors may not be 100% accurate as i am working mainly from the Revell acrylics, and most of these are ones i collected in '6 packs' , i.e Civilian Aircraft Colors, Military Aircraft Colors, Maritime Ship Colors etc, so ill be blending and interpreting as i go along to the best of my ability. 

 

()

(Annoyingly, it would seem that you cannot actually build the aircraft the cover art represents, as the kit does not come with a central drop tank or bombs, and is configured for 2x wing drop tanks, and 10xHVAR Rockets)

 

 

This is my first time documenting a build, and i am quite enjoying the process. Having some pictures to chart progress is quite motivating, as you can see unpainted parts 'jump to life' as you apply details and weathering etc.

 

Some early shots of some 'on sprue' painting of parts. Mainly engine and cockpit bits

 

 

Finishing up the cockpit details,

 

Putting the cockpit together..... need to work on my clumsy seat belts for next time!

 

Glued into fuselage with the Instrument panel decal on - out of interest, why is this provided if we get a '3d' instrument panel to begin with? I found this a nightmare to get to sit flush to the surface due to the embossed dials.

 

 

This was where the first spanner entered the works. Be it due to bad fit or my bad positioning, when it came to closing the fuselage, it well, didnt.

 

So out came the filler

 

Sanded back and dry (loose) fit of the wings

 

Looking at the underside, it almost looked like the bottom sides were out of alignment by almost 1mm. Taking it apart and reworking was too much on this return to modelling, so ive sanded back and smoothed and filled as i can to reduce the effect. From the top, where its most likely to be viewed, its barely noticable, and that will do for me for now. I am sure this is because either the Instrument Panel is marginally wider than it should be, or there is a minor misalignment on the cockpit floor where it meets the opposite fuselage half - but its a lesson learned for next time!

 

 

Getting the wings on (thanks to a fellow BM modeler who i saw using the Tamiya tape like this to give wings the correct dihedral)

 

Tape off, its time to fill any of those gaps! Using Perfect Plastic Putty rather than Milliput this time, much nicer stuff and easier to work with.

 

And now a bit of rattle can primer on there to hide away that filler!

 

Hopefully this weekend i will get the undercarriage assembled, as well as all the wing stores complete.  Novice question i know, but would you say i am better applying the camouflage and decals to the plane body/wings now, before adding UC and stores, or do that after?
 

More pics and updates to follow, and thanks to all of you for giving me that push to get the modelling ball rolling once more!

Kushan_Farsight. 

 

 

 

 

 

[neil5208]

If your doing the kit scheme don't fit the rockets as that sqn wasn't used for ground attack only bomber escort duty and the tanks supplied are for a P38. Otherwise the revell kits not to bad. Dont forget the tail plane filllet.

[Kushan_Farsight]

Thanks for the reminder about the tail fillet @neil5208! had totally forgotten to stick that on yesterday and will add that now. 

 

Dont think i will bother with the wing tanks if they arent for the right aircraft as your noting, but hopefully the pylons for the fuel are ok as i was still planning to use those.

Might keep the HVARS on, mainly as pre-drilled the holes, got them painted up and on pylons ready to go on - and im a fan of the look they bring to this stubby plane - even if it may not have been quite in keeping with their operational ordinance. Perhaps the story could be they got lent a few from another squadron for some "familiarization training!"   

[TimT]

Looks like you've been moving quickly! With a coat of primer, you'd never know there's been any fit issues for you. The cockpit looks great - I like the look of the IP on the sprue, particularly. Did you put a decal over that? Anyway, looking forward to the next stage.

[72modeler]

Kushan,

 

One of my favorite versions of the P-47! You're off to a good start. One small detail; while you have dull dark green correct for the cockpit, the wheel bays and inner surfaces of the landing gear doors should be untinted zinc chromate, which is a very sickly yellow color. Also, the M's were used as interceptors due to their blinding speed, and in  most of the photos I have seen, there are  no wing store/fuel tank pylon fitted, but the 'bathtub' tank can be seen frequently fitted on the centerline. A lot of variety, however. For example, my favorite M. Teddy, of the 61st FS, 56th FG, can be seen  with no pylons, a centerline 'bathtub' tank only, a 'bathtub' tank under each wing, and a 108-gallon paper tank under each wing depending upon which photo you are looking at! Bottom line- the M's can be seen with just about every combination of fuel tank. Find a photo of the one you want to do in the configuration that strikes your fancy! BTW, the Revell kit is very nice in that it has the correct C-series R-2800 engine with its distinctive cylindrical reinforced crankcase used on the P-47M's! Looking forward to seeing which one you do!

Mike

 

See the link below for a four-part photo collection of P-47 photos!

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/

Edited December 1, 2019 by 72modeler
added text

[dogsbody]

If you want the flat belly tank and bombs, they come with Revell's 1/72 P-47D kit.

 

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/P-47-D-Thunderbolt.html

 

 

Chris

[Kushan_Farsight]

Thanks for the comments! Enjoying the build up on this and doing a lot more historical scheme checking than ever before! 

 

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

One small detail; while you have dull dark green correct for the cockpit, the wheel bays and inner surfaces of the landing gear doors should be untinted zinc chromate, which is a very sickly yellow color.

 -Many thanks, did not know this! thankfully the undercarriage has yet to go together so i will have a bash at repainting these tonight. i dont have any zinc chromate to hand, but im sure that i can blend an approximation together! i also had a second look at the rear wheel well, and it actually appears to have some kind of fabric covering, so will do that in a leather/tan color with the metal surrounds in zinc chromate.
 

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

See the link below for a four-part photo collection of P-47 photos!

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/

- This has been great source of extra reference material. lots of variations of loadouts! even 20mm cannons on the outer pylons! as well as a good couple of P-47M variants too.  M. Teddys color scheme is pretty cool too. For the moment i think ill go with a 63rd Fighter Squadron color scheme, similar to the box art. 

 

5 hours ago, TimT said:

Looks like you've been moving quickly! With a coat of primer, you'd never know there's been any fit issues for you. The cockpit looks great - I like the look of the IP on the sprue, particularly. Did you put a decal over that? Anyway, looking forward to the next stage.

Got to this stage in about a week, just took a long time to upload the photos and get them into a build log  I did put a decal over the top...... its ok, but might not bother next time. 

 

On 11/30/2019 at 7:12 PM, neil5208 said:

tanks supplied are for a P38

 - can you elaborate on this comment a little more? i had a belief there was quite a commonality between all the tanks and they were used as needed/available?

 

I found this great PDF feature by Eduard regarding fuel tanks.. and some of their uses/adaptions. The P-38 Ambulance looks like one hell of a ride! 

 

DROP TANKS USAAF

 

 

I wasnt sure what i was going to do in terms of any weathering, with the primer down i was tempted to paint some areas aluminum so that when i put the final camo on i can scratch back to it - but i may just go for a light panel wash instead.

 

 

 

 

[neil5208]

18 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

 

 - can you elaborate on this comment a little more? i had a belief there was quite a commonality between all the tanks and they were used as needed/available?

 

Yes, the p38 fuel tanks were 300 gal non drop-able, they did use 150 gal drop able tanks as well. The p47 used 150 gal drop tanks of different of shapes including a tear drop one but the kit one is to large to be 150 gals.

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

i also had a second look at the rear wheel well, and it actually appears to have some kind of fabric covering,

Correct on  the covering- IIRC, it is canvas and is secured with metal snaps; I have seen period photos that show it in olive drab, the undersurface neutral grey, and  zinc chromate primer- it's hard to find color period photos, and many of the restored examples can't really be used as a color reference.

Mike

Edited December 1, 2019 by 72modeler
added text

[Kushan_Farsight]

Zinc Chromate went on last night, wasnt sure quite how to get the color i needed (especially with olive drab on already, but a 70/30 mix of Aluminium and Yellow originally for my Airfix Yellowjack, paired with the olive drab already applied to wheel wells, turned out well enough! (for me anyway  ) 

 

 

This fuel tank saga with the P-47 never ends, i want some tanks on this bird but im too cheap to buy aftermarket ones, but putting something that 'couldnt' be mated to a P-47 doesnt really appeal to me.

 

after some more googling i found this resource - https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/p-47-loadouts.14154/

 

The picture below shows 7 P-47s loaded up with (what appear to me) 150 Gallon drop tanks that match the size and shape of the tanks in the Revell Kit pretty closely (albeit with a different pylon config)

 

 

I also found this unusual configuration of 500lb bomb and a load of cluster munitions, all wrapped around the centreline pylon-

 

In short, if it fit, it seemed the pilots and crew pretty much got anything they could strapped under a P-47! 

 

Bonus

Part of that thread found me this gem -  a copy of the original Pilots Flight Operating Manual for the P-47.

Great historical information and so many shots of interior dials, levers, switches etc, that im sure would be invaluable for anyone doing detailed interiors. 

 

Air Force P-47 Operating Instructions, Jan 20, 1943

Next step is to get the undercarriage on, because tanks or no, im 100% sure these were  standard on most P-47 models  

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

The picture below shows 7 P-47s loaded up with (what appear to me) 150 Gallon drop tanks

That photo looked familiar....taken in Iceland as those P-47D-5's were being ferried to Europe, which is why they had the Lockheed 150-gallon tanks mounted. The Jug in the foreground, 42,8544 'Natalie' was assigned to the 355th FG, coded OS-R was renamed 'Moon',  and was credited with eight kills; it was then transferred to the 406th FBG and was shot down near Cherbourg, with the pilot parachuting out safely. Note the early cowl flap arrangement compared to the later blocks, as well as the mount and the RDF loop used for navigation over the long ocean route. IIRC the D-5's had no mounts for a belly tank or stores. A neat possible modeling project for an early razorback Jug!

Mike

[Kushan_Farsight]

18 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

That photo looked familiar....taken in Iceland as those P-47D-5's were being ferried to Europe, which is why they had the Lockheed 150-gallon tanks mounted.

Ah, so a ferry flight......... Not quite combat operations!, Nice bit of history about the front bird too.

In search for that all important documented evidence, my search has taken me here - http://www.kagero.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=293:p-47-thunderbolt-with-the-usaaf-european-theatre-of-operations&catid=95&Itemid=688&limitstart=1

 

One paragraph of note 

Quote

 In early March the Americans commenced a series of bombing raids against Berlin. By that time some Thunderbolts had been modified to carry auxiliary fuel tanks under wings – initially of 75 gallons, and of 108 gallons starting with April. In summer 1944 the roles somewhat reversed, and the remaining Thunderbolts of the strategic 8th AF were pressed into a tactical, ground-supporting role. Only one fighter group of the 8th AF – 56th FG – continued to operate Thunderbolts by the end of the war. Notably, it remained the top-scoring outfit (in terms of aerial victories) of all American fighters groups in the ETO. After the group had received the so-called ‘Superbolts’ (the P-47D-25 and later models), fitted with enlarged internal fuel tanks and modified to carry 150-gallon drop tanks under wings, it could range out as far as Berlin. Not unduly, it was with this unit that the aforementioned P-47M saw operational service, starting with January 1945. The 56th FG’s last Thunderbolts are famous for, more than anything else, their flamboyant painting schemes. The 61st FS opted for overall dark Midnight Blue with code letters and rudders in red

 I then found an couple of lines in the book '56th Fighter Group' by Roger Freeman, which commented -

Quote

'While two 150-US Gallon drop tanks could be carried under the wings of the P-47, the drag they created was considerable. The shackle pylons on the wings also caused drag,affecting both maneuverability and speed. Dave Shilling had discussed these problems with Cas Hough, who was in charge of the experiment station at Bovingdon, and the latters solution was the 215 US-Gallon belly tank. Basically a wider version of the 'flat' 150 gallon tank, it was fabricated in steel by a British firm specially for the 56th FG. Use of this tank allowed the wing pylons to be removed, thus maximizing the Thunderbolts performance. 

So potentially, 150 gallon tanks could be portrayed on a 56th FG vehicle, prior to their adoption of the 215 belly tank? (This is where i find there is no 1/72 215gal Pancake belly tanks about!  ) 

Learning more than i ever thought possible about drop tanks on this build! 

[72modeler]

18 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

(This is where i find there is no 1/72 215gal Pancake belly tanks about!  ) 

Simple! Just take a 150-gallon bathtub tank out of a Tamiya P-47D bubbletop kit, which is molded into upper and lower halves, split each half down the middle vertically, and add a plasticard spacer to make it wider; Bob's you Uncle, as they say on your side of the pond! Only problem I see is finding out what the dimensions of the 215-gallon tank were! (I wonder how many drops of water to the gallon in 1/72 scale you would need to put into the kit tank to determine the capacity?) 

Mike

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=md0bDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=P-47D+215-gallon+belly+tank&source=bl&ots=qDpz4p4XRM&sig=ACfU3U1SnaOgPLRhWHqr7PaKmHyEF7mN2A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU7r3byJfmAhUDP6wKHRhFBzgQ6AEwGXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=P-47D 215-gallon belly tank&f=false

 

BTW, I was incorrect about the D-5's not being able to carry a drop tank or bomb on the centerline- the D-5 block was the first to be fitted with shackles and mount for this purpose...sorry! The ferry photo I attached earlier threw me off, as there were only underwing-mounted external tanks. My bad!

[Wince]

Is this an original moulding as I have had some problems with revell kits that were fine when I built them as a younger chap but later versions just don't go together. I built one of these in 2004 and was an original release and it went together well. I have this p47 in my stash that I picked up as a starter set when my LMS closed down and it is full of flash and soft details. The fuselage is warped as well. Similar issues on my hurricane iic (but that kit was poor back in the 90s when it was released). It is nothing like the originals I built as a lad. 

 

Your zinc chromate is close enough. It is slightly more yellowish In some images I've seen but it varies a lot in real life and yours looks decent! one thing I will say, and it isn't a criticism as I've done the same with my revell hurricane, I prefer the moulded detail of the instrument panel compared to the decal as I couldn't get the revell decal to settle over the raised details at all. But a nice work in progress as I will be building mIne soon. I wanted to do mine as a thunderbolt 2 but it's the wrong model as I need a p47 d

[Kushan_Farsight]

2 hours ago, Wince said:

Is this an original moulding as I have had some problems with revell kits that were fine when I built them as a younger chap but later versions just don't go together. I built one of these in 2004 and was an original release and it went together well. I have this p47 in my stash that I picked up as a starter set when my LMS closed down and it is full of flash and soft details.

I found the same too surprisingly, worse than some MUCH older kits in the stash. The amount of flash on most of the interior parts as well as the tail fillet were nuts, like 2-3cm of plastic, wings were bad too, but fuselage halves thankfully ok. the reason my cowling vents look a bit worse for wear on one or two edges was because they too, were covered in flash. 

 

In retrospect like yourself i probably wouldn't go the decal way for the cab instrumentation again - unless ive missed a trick to getting the decal to contour to the interior dash that anyone knows? 

 

Added the tail fillet to the plane this evening only to realize i had used the wrong locating pin for the antennae, which was meant for the fillet! so thats had to come off and will need refitting later! shame i didn't add this when sticking the first layer of primer on, but lesson learned! 

 

 

 

[Wince]

38 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

I found the same too surprisingly, worse than some MUCH older kits in the stash. The amount of flash on most of the interior parts as well as the tail fillet were nuts, like 2-3cm of plastic, wings were bad too, but fuselage halves thankfully ok. the reason my cowling vents look a bit worse for wear on one or two edges was because they too, were covered in flash. 

 

In retrospect like yourself i probably wouldn't go the decal way for the cab instrumentation again - unless ive missed a trick to getting the decal to contour to the interior dash that anyone knows? 

 

Added the tail fillet to the plane this evening only to realize i had used the wrong locating pin for the antennae, which was meant for the fillet! so thats had to come off and will need refitting later! shame i didn't add this when sticking the first layer of primer on, but lesson learned! 

 

 

 

I used decal fix by Humbrol that works for most decals I used and it didn’t touch it at all.  Yours still looks great btw but Revell decals seem to be impervious to settling down with any treatment! I might scratch the cowl flaps on mine as they are so badly moulded. Shame as I’m sure I picked up a copy of this in 2000 that was perfect! Even ageing airfix moulds seem better than what Revell are kicking out. But a true baptism of fire on your return to modelling mate! 

[dogsbody]

I've looked at my two Revell P-47 kits and of the two, the D has slightly more flash than the M, but neither one has very much. I'm not sure just when I acquired these two kits, as I don't remember buying them. They may have come from the short-lived hobby shop that was in our town. For some reason, I seemed to have removed the rockets from the M but, again, I have no recollection of that. Ain't getting old just the screamin' !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Wince]

Without hijacking this thread too much those sprues look the same so can the m I have be built up into a d model?

[Kushan_Farsight]

45 minutes ago, Wince said:

Without hijacking this thread too much those sprues look the same so can the m I have be built up into a d model?

 I have seen this old article which looks at the P47M (as shown in @dogsbodys boxing) 
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/april/first-looks/revell_p47m.htm

Potentially yes? you could make this into a D variant i think - although i know they had different engine/supercharger configs.

 

Hopefully the table below helps? 

 

Also a few days ago whilst looking for ever more information on drop tanks, i happened across this article.

https://realhistory.co/2018/05/23/robert-s-johnson-p47-thunderbolt/

If i am ever to do another P-47, it would probably be this plane, in 1/48 scale. Although i may need to touch up on my 'Battle Damage' modelling skills

Edited December 3, 2019 by Kushan_Farsight
Added another web link

[dogsbody]

There is no difference between the sprues of the two kits they are identical. The one small difference is the landing light on the undersurface of the starboard wing. On the M, you are told to use Part 35, from the clear sprue. On the D, you are told to use Part 35A, which is only on the droptank/bomb sprue of the M. 

 

Revell truly had improper carnal relations with the dog there!

 

 

Chris

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, Wince said:

can the m I have be built up into a d model?

Yes it can, with the only real external differences listed below, with the engine being the major change. 

D-25: 1st bubble canopy variant; R-2800-59 with rounded crankcase cover fitted to all bubble canopy D's

D-28:  same as above

D-30: dive brakes (compressibility) fitted under wings; dorsal fin strake fitted to fuselage from the factory (RE) or as an add-on kit (RA)

D-40: same as above but K-14 gyro sight fitted

 

So, a D-25, D-28, and early D-30 can be built from the Revell P-47M kit, but you will have to change the C-series engine that has the cylindrical crankcase cover that has all the reinforcement bolts for the earlier R-2800-59. Keep in mind there were significant prop changes, with the HS paddle blade prop and two different Curtiss Electric props being fitted- in addition, props got swapped a lot as a result of maintenance, upgrading, and crew chief preference, so it's best to go by  a photo of the one you want to do.

 

I have attached a link to a pretty good summary of all production blocks from the B to the N that should be useful to you and others- hope it helps!

http://p47tbolt.tripod.com/jugevolution.htm

 

We have a couple of resident Jug experts who can assist you better than I, so hopefully they will see this.

Mike

Edited December 3, 2019 by 72modeler
added link

[Wince]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Yes it can, with the only real external differences listed below, with the engine being the major change. 

D-25: 1st bubble canopy variant; R-2800-59 with rounded crankcase cover fitted to all bubble canopy D's

D-28:  same as above

D-30: dive brakes (compressibility) fitted under wings; dorsal fin strake fitted to fuselage from the factory (RE) or as an add-on kit (RA)

D-40: same as above but K-14 gyro sight fitted

 

So, a D-25, D-28, and early D-30 can be built from the Revell P-47M kit, but you will have to change the C-series engine that has the cylindrical crankcase cover that has all the reinforcement bolts for the earlier R-2800-59. Keep in mind there were significant prop changes, with the HS paddle blade prop and two different Curtiss Electric props being fitted- in addition, props got swapped a lot as a result of maintenance, upgrading, and crew chief preference, so it's best to go by  a photo of the one you want to do.

 

I have attached a link to a pretty good summary of all production blocks from the B to the N that should be useful to you and others- hope it helps!

http://p47tbolt.tripod.com/jugevolution.htm

 

We have a couple of resident Jug experts who can assist you better than I, so hopefully they will see this.

Mike

This is awesome! Thank you! And thanks to the others who replied. I will post my own WIP when I take this on as I'm likely to convert mine to the thunderbolt II in raf service. I can now become a spectator again! 

[Andre B]

Hi,

Following your build with great interest. The only thing I don't like with the Revell kit is their decals. Their Stars n Bars are a little strange when it comes to the blue. And it takes some time to paint the darker blue with the size of the Stars n Bars in mind. Some carefull masking i needed...

 

Otherways I feel their Thunderbolt is an nice little kit.

 

http://ipmsstockholm.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10767

 

Cheers / André

 

[Kushan_Farsight]

Got a little sidetracked with work and buying more kits than making this one! Set myself the rule NO MORE KIT PURCHASES THIS YEAR

 So finally back getting bits stuck together. I really do like the subtle detailing on this kit now the primer has been laid down it does pop out. 

Did a bit of a rough filler job on the tail fillet, and not sure how that's going to look once paint has been applied.  will reattach radio mast after canopy goes on.

 

Undercarriage is now fitted, had to check a couple of reference images as the instructions were not very clear on how this should be laid out. In hindsight, because of the overlapping way the gear doors sit, i wish i had painted them aluminium before applying, but as all of the underside is finished in ally, shouldn't be the worst problem.

 

Decided after much googling and learning that i will go with no belly tank, no rockets, and wing tanks (as seen below) -  may have not been standard 'operational configuration' but theres enough sources out there to show that if it fit on a P-47 and could still take off, they generally did, so i will envisage this as some long range operational setup from an exceptionally improvised airstrip that didn't lend itself well to belly stores. 

 

 

Note for modelers - if your going to close your paints - CLOSE THEM PROPERLY 😫- i had just been touching up the wheels from a bit of silver over painting, and decided to pop the lid down to stop it drying out whilst fiddling with other bits. Half hour later, i realize ive knocked it over and half the tin of acrylic anthracite onto my wooden table (not the cutting board on my pics!) Thankfully, some coarse language, washing up liquid and a scrubbing brush tidied that little atrocity up, but did put a dampener on works for the evening! 

 

I really wanted to keep the cowling unfixed to be able to show off the engine but ive realized once the prop is on that stuffs that idea, so next job will be gluing that on. I notice that there is a neat detail that should allow the bubble canopy to open and close by running on 'runners' - how well does this work in reality anyone know?