Frank Abagnale VC-10

[71chally]

Does anyone here have any information at all on the BOAC VC-10 that Frank Abagnale was alleged to have escaped from on a taxiway at Kennedy airport?

 

Now I know the Abagnale story, immortalised in the film Catch Me if You Can, is surrounded by mystery and there are even some claims that very little of it actually happened, but the story of how he evaded capture from a VC-10 while being extradited from Stockholm has more holes in it than many.  

The book and film (both fictionalised accounts of his story) depicts him escaping via the toilet system (the film portrays a 707), while in an audio interview Mr Abignale states that he jumped from the galley door. 

So either he got through the pressure hull, or he jumped a great height.

 

But what really got me wondering about this is that I was talking to colleague of mine who has worked in Air Traffic for a long time and he doesn't think that there would have even been a BOAC Stockholm - Kennedy service.

 

So the basic questions,

Is there any evidence of this event from flight crews, security, or other passengers?

Is the registration of the VC-10 known?

Was there even a BOAC Stockholm - Kennedy service?

[Skodadriver]

Unless somebody knows a lot more than me, there was never a direct BOAC Stockholm-JFK service. As far as I'm aware BOAC never went anywhere near Stockholm, I don't think they even overflew Sweden on the way to anywhere else.  If for some mysterious reason you wanted to use BOAC to fly from Stockholm to JFK you would have needed to catch a BEA flight to LHR first.  As I say, that's subject to correction but it's been my understanding for a long time.

 

Although it's a while since I last looked at it, I have no memory of reading the alleged Abagnale story in Scott Henderson's Silent, Swift, Superb which is a pretty exhaustive study of the VC-10.

 

If you have the time and/or inclination you might want to trawl through this site but personally I think you'd be on a wild goose chase.

[Alan P]

This might help, from Abagnale's own website, written in 2002 after the release of the film:

 

I wrote the book, Catch Me If You Can, more than 23 years ago. Obviously, this was written from my perspective as a 16-year old with the help of a co-writer (I'm now 54 and I sold the movie rights in 1980). I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. He always reminded me that he was just telling a story and not writing my biography.

 

Sounds like nonsense to me. I've had many laughs over the years at films where the heroes run amok throughout every nook and cranny of passenger aircraft in flight. It's pure escapism (excuse the pun!)

[71chally]

Thanks for the responses so far.  I've done a lot of internet trawling of the story, and there are some good threads on PPRUNE etc, but the evidence comes to nowt in the end.

One constant when you look online is that apparently Mr Abignale was given an indepth tour of a VC-10 at an earlier stage of his 'career'.

The flight was an extradition flight, so I did wonder if the aircraft was chartered in, but then his account mentions other passengers on board, but no specific guard for himself.

 

The VC-10 element to all this is odd to me, why would an American account/story go to lengths to find a British airline and aircraft over its national carriers and 707s etc? 

The only other thing that I can think of was that there may have been a connecting flight first, before going transatlantic in the VC-10?

 

[bzn20]

Not sure about the VC10 at Stockholm but they did stage through Rome and Frankfurt . The 1st VC10 service went through Rome on way to Lagos and probably Kano too .

To get out through the rear toilets would be a lot of work and some knowledge . The rear toilet's bulkheads are doors . There is a "secret" sliding bolt for the doors ,hidden behind the No Smoking sign . Lift that up and slide the bolt . How would he know that ? Next thing are the big drip trays below A and B system Reservoirs  4 wing bolts . Then its a big cumbersome thing to get rid of in the confines of the toilet . If power is on those hydraulic pipes are very hot , burn skin hot .

Next problem is smashing through the rear freight bay roof panels , they're laminated ,ribbed fibreglass . no enough room to swing something meaningful . What would he use ? Its strong stuff and injury is a cert  . Say he does that and clambers down , Bags stacked everywhere and a fight for the door with baggage curtains another obstacle , How long would all this take ?  How does he open the  door from the inside ? You can't . On majors I used to climb up into the toilet or down to the freight bay but I could use the stringers as steps , no roof panels , no drip trays .

You could drop out the rear Service (Galley) door and rear PAX Door (Super only ) just in front of the No1 and 2 engines after letting go dangling by finger tips ,reducing the drop . It's higher at the back on Tens ,sits nose down .

If you remember Steve McQueens' Bullit film's end piece .The criminal ( Stuntman not CGI  ) jumps out the back door of a Pan_Am 707-321 . So it's possible .

 

I've gone out the forward service door on a VC10 hanging by finger tips on to a Land Rover bonnet (no spare wheel ) with about 10 others . That was hard getting to finger tips without falling early and swinging off target because of the fuselage curving away . I got my arms locked and fingers clamped round the hatch frame between the 2 forward galleys ,took a while to work it out and was having a mark one panic !

I don't believe a word of that story BTW for the reasons above but not saying BOAC didn't go to Stockholm ever .

Edited November 29, 2019 by bzn20

[JohnT]

3 minutes ago, 71chally said:

 

 

The VC-10 element to all this is odd to me, why would an American account/story go to lengths to find a British airline and aircraft over its national carriers and 707s etc? 

 

 

If the story was intended for a primarily US audience they would most readily spot the story was a pile of toot if he supposedly tunneled out a 707  - an aircraft they are familiar with.  On the other hand a VC 10 would be something they might more readily accept as a possibility without thinking too hard.

 

On leaving without steps I can only say I did once leave a Trident 3 by the front door onto the Edinburgh tarmac when I was young and fit in 1974/5 during the summer when I was a student working with BA.  Having assisted a passenger who required a lot of assistance to board I suddenly found that the "ladies" had done their count head check and decided it was time to close doors for Heathrow.  The steps had long gone and the Captain was also keen to go.  I solved the problem by taking the quick way out.  I wouldnt have fancied a longer drop and would have done the London round trip if higher !

[71chally]

One thing I keen to do with this is to put distance between Abignales story, and the book/film which are admitted fictions.

Even in an audio interview he mentions the VC-10, but escaping by the galley door rather than the toilet theory.

 

Which ever way he did this, there must have been witnesses, or even logs of flights from the time.

[Vlamgat9]

There’s a late 70s kids’ novel called Hijacked! by JM Marks that involves the lead character escaping from the plane via the toilet of a VC-10.... Read it when I was about 9 I think.

[bzn20]

There is a film where somebody hung on to a main leg , went up with it and managed to get in to the cabin by popping up through a steel treadplate hatch between galleys  while making the fingers on lips shush action to the shocked Coffee Jockey's, grab remote , up channel and ended up watching a wedding dress show Doh ! I meant Movies for Men war film  . Italian with English dubbing , Doh ! Off button .

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by bzn20

[The Tomohawk Kid]

On 29/11/2019 at 16:18, JohnT said:

If the story was intended for a primarily US audience they would most readily spot the story was a pile of toot if he supposedly tunneled out a 707  - an aircraft they are familiar with.  On the other hand a VC 10 would be something they might more readily accept as a possibility without thinking too hard.

 

In the book it was a VC-10, in the film it was a B.707 - so the otherway around.

 

At the end of the day to get bums on seats a film foremost has to entertain, what ever passes for entertainment and the rest follows. A point in question are the recent biopics of Queen and Elton John, whilst the vast majority of their respective careers are well know to even the most casual of fan, they both have huge dollops of fiction particulary Bohemian Rhapsody, which at certain points makes no sense. Starman was the more honest of the two films and therefore more enjoyable.

 

I enjoyed Catch Me if You Can and took it what it was, although it was a little too long in my opinion.

 

Tommo.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Lazy8]

There is nothing to be gained from the movie depiction of the inside of an airliner being accurate.  Airlines and airframers won't want anyone telling the entire world how to take one apart, and the movie industry won't want to be sued if some clown does try it.  It will be as far away from reality as it can be and still look plausible.

[Skodadriver]

1 hour ago, Lazy8 said:

There is nothing to be gained from the movie depiction of the inside of an airliner being accurate.  Airlines and airframers won't want anyone telling the entire world how to take one apart, and the movie industry won't want to be sued if some clown does try it.  It will be as far away from reality as it can be and still look plausible.

Slightly off topic but the only movie I can think of where civil aircraft and airline flying are treated with proper seriousness and accuracy is the 1980 flim "The Pilot". It stars Cliff Robertson who also directed and who actually was a pilot in real life. Well worth a look if you've never seen it and a must for any fan of the DC-8.

[Dave Swindell]

9 minutes ago, Skodadriver said:

Slightly off topic but the only movie I can think of where civil aircraft and airline flying are treated with proper seriousness and accuracy is the 1980 flim "The Pilot".

Nah, gotta be "Airplane!"

[bzn20]

 Airport , the first the franchise.  Joe Patroni is king 

[Archer_VC10]

Let's confuse the issue a bit more.... there is at least one hatch on a VC10 that you should be able to open from the inside, but that's in the avionics bay in the forward end of the fuselage. To get there, you would need to crawl down a hatch in the forward galley floor, which doesn't fit the story from Abagnale. I have also once crawled through the door in the rear toilet into the hydraulic bay, and then down into the rear freight hold. As @bzn20 mentions, this should not be possible as the freight hold is normally lined with panels, but in this instance the VC10 had been standing in a museum for quite some time and these panels had been removed. From the rear freight hold there are two ways out: the freight door is one (can't be opened from the inside) but there is also the square hatch in the floor at the aft end of the bay. I don't know if this one can be opened from the inside. Even though I was once able to do this, it is extremely unlikely that Abagnale used this route. He may well have been aware of the doors to the hydraulic bay if he did have a tour through a VC10 at one point, using elements of this to spice up the story.

 

Having re-read Abagnale's book, it still sounds illogical to me, and an escape through a galley door appears more likely. But that doesn't explain why his escape (allegedly) wasn't discovered until they found the 'lifted out toilet'. If he did escape through a galley door, the cabin crew sitting on their crew seats in the galley area would certainly have raised the alarm. Oh well, it's still a good yarn.

[The Tomohawk Kid]

Abagnale is on record as saying that his sole involvement in his book was downloading a stream of conscious thought to a ghostwriter over two or three day period. There is also the the little matter he was an acomplished fraudster/fibber/romancer, therefore working out the fact from the fiction is going to be difficult. It is probably best leaving it at, the book is an entertaining read and the film a good watch.

 

Tommo.

Edited February 2, 2020 by The Tomohawk Kid

[bzn20]

1 hour ago, Archer_VC10 said:

square hatch

Hi Jelle .. I 'm trying to remember the baggage hatch right at  the end … I don't remember an internal handle , I've obviously been inside working ,using the hatch for access while working  ,don't remember opening it from inside . The RAF Movers would be looking at a full freight bay from the front end and no clear pathway as its all  curtains (20 odd from memory) tied to the floor rails (exactly the same as seat track , holes at 1" pitch) and curtain posts that fit to floor to ceiling roof hard points in the roof rail and full of baggage ,small items of freight etc. , the hatch for a conveyor belt  loading/unloading would be fed by someone inside . Hell of a drop BTW . Possible to go down the conveyor though . I bet the inside of the  hatch is the only thing I don't have a picture of too !

 

Lifting out a toilet on  anything of that age … The toilet waste pipe is about 4-5 inches in Diameter with a King clamp , V band with a fitted threaded stud on a swivel , 1/4 or 3/8ths UNF and wire locked nut . VC10s is under the floor at the front toilets ,access through nosewheel tunnel , rear through the bulkhead at floor level , and be hanging upside down to cut the wire undo the V band clamp with out freight bay access . Need a small tool kit ,side cutters/snips and range of either deep sockets , ratchet handle and extension , spanners ranging from 11/32nd - 7/16ths AF. Before that , trim removal .. It's a tight space ,door is shut … Best of luck ! It isn't a noisy job ,the swearing might be , wire locking wounds , scuffed knuckles and at the end of all that , lifting out a toilet doesn't get you an escape hole you can travel through , designed for one thing only and the Honey truck is at the other end !

I haven't done a toilet since 1976 ,what my head has stored and never thought I'd be having to go through reliving it all again .

Edited January 31, 2020 by bzn20

[Archer_VC10]

Yes, taking a toilet out only leads to a lot of piping and a tank, at least on the types I've encountered. Never had to take one out, fortunately! Oh well, we'll have to leave it at being an entertaining read. 😉

[bzn20]

20 hours ago, Archer_VC10 said:

tank

VC10's toilet assemblies have tank attached ,, Front is a double unit , 2 seats on a bigger tank , with a two piece sheet of wood to divide the seated !

Edited February 2, 2020 by bzn20