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The size of /1700 has put me off to date.

However, I've marvelled at some of the work on display in this forum and also been bedazzled by the work of Kostas Katseas

 

I thought I'd have a go and rather randomly chose IBG's new I Class - HMS Ithuriel.

This is a bit of a proof of concept and I'm going to riff with some bases.  The Chris Flodberg Styrofoam method seems too small to replicate at this scale and I'm working up to using Clear casting resin as per Kostas Katseas.

 

Here's the box with a slightly deceptive B5 shade at the bow which is in fact MS4 on the actual colour scheme :crosseyed:

 

49137380521_870c7a8101_b.jpgDSCF8877_edited-1 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49137579247_c94a82cebb_b.jpg2019-11-25_122008 (2) by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Some master barrels from Starlin models seemed a good investment...

 

49136892008_6e7a724b9a_b.jpgDSCF8861 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The first impression is just how tiny everything is - a bit of a shocker after the 1/72!

 

49136892078_81ecb9ff60_b.jpgDSCF8860 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49137381601_5f1a1d238d_b.jpgDSCF8858 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The detail and moulding is top class.  it's been hard to stop myself progressing though there's a reminder of the tiny little kits that you used to get in cereal packets!!!:lol:

 

49136892123_d21246174e_b.jpgDSCF8859 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49137381196_31cac27c0c_b.jpgDSCF8865 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

I like the fact that all the etch is provided so that you have a complete kit.  

 

The plastic is a little soft but files easily

 

49137380626_833b4de8ce_b.jpgDSCF8862 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49136891673_41a19a8fa4_b.jpgDSCF8866 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The etch needs fitting quite early on (I think)

 

Double sided tape seems the easy solution to keeping pieces still whilst fitting PE

 

49136891588_44d99ddd4f_b.jpgDSCF8867 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

And in a comparatively short time without tears or tantrums we get to...

 

49136891508_d161f1c40c_b.jpgDSCF8869 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49137578402_ed516d218e_b.jpgDSCF8871 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Thanks for looking 

More soon

Rob

 

 

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Now that has come up very quick nice one 👍🏻

 

but 700 scale oh my eyes are watering just looking at it 😱

 

beefy 

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Get in there Rob, let's see what you can do with these small destroyers...i have a few. Looking very promising.

I like this video

I don't know if you've seen any of the 1/700 destroyer builds by @Kris B and @Michael M, very inspirational builders in this scale.

 

Stuart 

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OMG is there no end to this mans skill .....     obviously not!

 

I must admit the 1/72 figure next to the ship is giving me vertigo :hypnotised:

 

:popcorn: :beer:

 

Kev

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Will be very interested to see how this goes.

 

Good stuff so far!

 

Geoff 

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Good to see one of these being built as it gives a much better impression of what the kit is like. I like what I'm seeing so far!B)

 

Mike.

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Nice to see the other type of destroyer build here. Nice progress.

The PE looks richer then in HUNT II class ones. Will try to keep my eye on the build.

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I'll stick my eye to this one as well ;) IBG is making visible progress in this scale. I for myself can't wait to go at my little 700 destroyer, but first have to finish the big boy ....

Rob have you any specific plans for the seascape? Oats method is quite simple to use and produces nice results ;)

Edited by Michael M

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Thanks for looking in Fellas and for all the comments

On 11/28/2019 at 3:20 PM, Courageous said:

Get in there Rob, let's see what you can do with these small destroyers...i have a few. Looking very promising.

I like this video

I don't know if you've seen any of the 1/700 destroyer builds by @Kris B and @Michael M, very inspirational builders in this scale.

 

Stuart 

Thanks Stuart - Familiar with that video and have my Water colour "Rough" paper that Jim Baumann suggests - foam and balsa to come

As to Kris and Mike - Yes definitely and they've been the inspiration here B)

 

On 11/28/2019 at 7:32 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

@dickrd any views on the scheme?

It's taken from Raven - Interested as ever to see what you and your group think Janie

 

49146530482_07e9f1c511_b.jpgIthurial Raven by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Here's the IWM pic

 

49146532752_c2495edc91_c.jpgHMS_Ithuriel_1942_IWM_FL_22375 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

15 hours ago, Michael M said:

I'll stick my eye to this one as well ;) IBG is making visible progress in this scale. I for myself can't wait to go at my little 700 destroyer, but first have to finish the big boy ....

Rob have you any specific plans for the seascape? Oats method is quite simple to use and produces nice results ;)

I'm starting with some trial bases - Michael - I'll probably skip the oats method that Chris Flodberg states he's dropped - I'm taken by the Rough Water colour paper and foam base though cast resin bases of Kostas Katseas are what really caught my eye

I've been riffing with some colours...

 

49136891893_2b7e1eccf3_b.jpgDSCF8863 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

and messed around with card onto some Daler bases...

 

49136891783_4e8ed28576_b.jpgDSCF8864 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

I bought some Tamiya Z-class Zerstorers cheap to "practice" on, but started on HMS Ithuriel which was supposed to come last!:whistle:

I've been trying layering using Liquitex "Gloss medium and Varnish",  which I read about and have lost the link - so apologies to whose ever idea it originally was:blush:

 

 

49137578292_1c67f44052_b.jpgDSCF8872 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

I originally tried with a flat brush which was much too small and ended up with an abomination that I shan't share.  it's possible that this wider brush will be more successful?

 

49136891353_c5d111ff29_b.jpgDSCF8873 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

For me - this sort of appearance from Kostas Katseas is just awe-inspiring...

49014755577_79b77c16d2_b.jpg29244298_1627191144066065_8499225402399522816_o by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

More soon

Rob

 

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You're diving into the deep end there Rob :yes:.

You're not having cows then, what about the odd porpoise 🐬 ... :coat:

 

Stuart

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Oats are nice for irregular little wavelets, but instead of CA it's better to use wood varnish, less smelly and it doesn't freeze them instantly, you have time for adjustment. If you don't like that plan, maybe try the watercolor paper, but not on the flat surface, but on something like what you've done with liquitex thick stuff. So use the watercolor paper for texture, but sculpt the waves with some other method..... Just my 2c on the subject ;)  

Edited by Michael M

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Michael - I've just checked out ORP Krakowiak and Tsi Yuen again.  CompellingB)

 

I hear you shouldn't use ordinary oats?

Automotive lacquer??  For finishing off a car spray job?

And finally what board do you lay the oats onto?

I get the soaked paper and the Liquitex etc.  Your wakes are particularly good - I'm assuming that's cotton wall laid with Liquitex?  I can't find "Rayon" this side of the pond.

Thanks+++ (if all that info is possible!)

Rob

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I use oat bran (whatever it is, never actually tried to eat it ;) ), because that's what i was told to use. So that paper 'frame' is just a white card (as it says on the box ). It doesn't matter what you'll use, it's job is to keep the oats together. Put the oats into that frame, shape it more less with wide brush. You can make the 'socket' for the model to fit (like I do) or just leave some flat space for it. Then you soak it with lacquer. What I did was first soak it with wood varnish diluted with turpentine to keep it together. Now if you have time that will be enough, you may have to do it few times. Since i wanted quick result ( I'm an impatient man ) after getting first bond with aforementioned mixture, I just sprayed automotive clear lacquer on it ( yes the one you can get in any motor factors, I used Hycote one) Spray it on in 2-3 big bursts, so the oats nearly swim in it. After 8-24 h (depends how much of the stuff you unloaded into the oats) it will get solid, like done with CA. Then quick sanding job, to get rid of the oats that stand upright and can spoil the later efforts. I heard that Rayon is better but couldn't get it handy and cotton does the job as well.

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Michael - I'm indebted - I'm still riffing with flat bases because I cant be bothered to add a hull.

I'm limbering up for the oats for 1/350 corvette and possibly some Tamiya Z-class destroyers

Thanks

Rob

 

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Adding a bit of hull is simple, just outline the hull on 1 mm plasticard cut out twice, make sandwich out of it. 2 mm is enough to show a bit of underwater part of the hull through waves. Whatever method you choose, you'll probably have to add some anyway. 

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(Thank you Jamie!)

 

As has been highlighted, MS2, MS4 & MS4a is Alan Raven’s suggested palette (WP Vol 2, page 50). This palette would make it a Light Admiralty Type disruptive scheme.

 

There are not that many photos of Ithuriel and few are of very good quality. Looking at them it seems to me there was nothing as light as MS4A present.  The overall impression is of a fairly drab scheme.

 

I have hunted through the official designs we have and found no match. To my eye the closest in style (and it’s not very close, just  a feeling and one or two similar shapes) is Plate 30 of CAFO 679/42 of April 1942. This is a Dark Admiralty Type with paint palette MS1, 507A & MS3. However I don’t think what we see on Ithuriel was overall that dark. Certainly I see no (near black) MS1 on her.

 

However there were also Dark Medium Type designs, achieved by substituting one or two colours in the Dark Types with lighter-toned paints. The Plate 30 design  adjusted to a Dark Medium Type design used a palette of 507A, MS3, MS4. Pending any other information becoming available, if I was modelling Ithuriel, I think those would be colours I would use. However all this really is little more than a guess….   

 

(Of the 17 Dark Medium Type designs listed in CAFO 2146/42, 3 were two colour designs so not relevant to Ithuriel. The 14 remaining were three colour designs. Of these no less than 12 had the palette 507A, MS3, MS4. The other 2 had the palette 507A, B5, MS4. So if I wanted a slightly more colourful model Ithuriel then 507A, B5, MS4 might be an option - interesting that that is what the box art seems to hint at, contrary to the painting instructions.)

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Dick - Thank You Very Much.  Hugely appreciated.

I plan to use 507A,MS3 and MS4 accordingly.

Timely as I plan to get some paint on tonight!

Regards

Rob

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Thanks again!!

The pennant number looks the same size and font - very different flow to the colours and obviously in shadow, though it's interesting as to how little contrast there is between colours.

I think it's got to be used :thanks:

Rob

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For some odd reason I thought I'd paint the decks 507A then realised that I HAD Non slip Grey which is darker and altogether more pleasing :nodding:

 

49162833902_8604190825_b.jpgDSCF8874 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49162835267_c94b379d74_b.jpgDSCF8888 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The Semtex (a problematic colour) is Flat green as per my corvette HMS Crocus

 

49162118543_b50407e77c_b.jpgDSCF8887 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The Superstructure needed a 0.3mm Plastruct shim

 

49162578711_9c48065185_b.jpgDSCF8879 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

The etch on the stack was challenging to say the least - Madness in fact :rant:

 

49162578591_d746647a89_b.jpgDSCF8881 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49162578541_3ab49f4a58_b.jpgDSCF8882 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

49162578421_74ba3fc995_b.jpgDSCF8884 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Primed and ready for final top coats

 

49162814872_e8299d84ee_b.jpgDSCF8883 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Thanks again to @dickrd for scheme advice- so it's a quick off for MS4

 

49162814762_49e96f6ca0_b.jpgDSCF8886 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Thanks for looking

Rob

 

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The IWM photo linked by dickrd depicts ITHURIEL on 16 June 1942, after Operation Harpoon.  The kit depicts her somewhat later, after the midships quadruple 0.5" mountings had been replaced by another pair of single 20mm Oerlikons.  This change probably took place after her damage repairs following the ramming of the Italian submarine Cobalto on 12 August 1942 - a photo at http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_HMS_Ithuriel_snapshot.html shows she still had the 0.5"s at that date.

 

I've not seen a starboard-side photo which shows the midships Oerlikons, so cannot say whether it then matched the port-side pattern - certainly the port side pattern was that shown in the kit instructions when she left the shipyard (photo in Maurice Cocker Destroyers of the Royal Navy 1893-1981 (London: Ian Allan, 1981)).  The only starboard-side depiction I know of with the mirror-image pattern is the Raven drawing in the earlier post by Rob, which depicts her with the midships 0.5"s - ie a different pattern from that from the Harpoon photos (and one stated to be during Operation Pedestal (in Peter Jacobs Fortress Island Malta (Pen and Sword, 2016))).

 

My guess, therefore, is that the assymetric pattern depicted in the IWM photo was worn throughout ITHURIEL's short active career.

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Building on Ned’s helpful posting:

 

Ithuriel did not have a long service life: http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-10DD-31Turk-HMS_Ithuriel.htm

 

The obvious occasion for a whole-ship repaint that might have resulted in a complete change of camouflage scheme is October 1942 at the conclusion of repairs required after ramming the Italian submarine Cobalto in August 1942.

However I have photos (dated June, August and November 1942) taken before and after those repairs showing the starboard side in the scheme shown in the IWM June 1942 photo of Ithuriel arriving at Malta.

 

For the portside I have a clear photo of Ithuriel down by the stern, back broken and disarmed wearing the design depicted in the kit’s instructions. Working back we have the portrait series trio (off the port bow, broadside-on and off the port quarter), one of which (FL 22375) has been posted above. Given that an Oerlikon has replaced the quad 0.5” amidships plus the silhouette of what I interpret as the blockhouse on Plymouth Breakwater showing through the mist above Ithuriel’s stern in one of the images, I think this series of photos were taken in Plymouth Sound late October 1942. So it looks like she certainly had a different camouflage design each side October 1942 onwards.

 

Unfortunately I have no really clear images of Ithuriel’s portside that I can positively date to the period March-August 1942. I have two aerial photos of poor quality dated May 1942. In one of these there are perhaps hints of the kit instruction’s scheme on the portside – but I might be imagining things!   

 

However I do have an undated photo of Ithuriel’s portside that comes from the American archives (NARA).  Now of course a US ship might have photographed Ithuriel during the period of the Torch landings December 1942 but there were also opportunities in April and May 1942 and USS Wasp in particular took a lot of photos of RN ships during that period. It might of course alternatively have been a British photo supplied to the USN for recognition purposes. The key thing though is that the design on the portside whilst being of the kit’s instructions type, is subtly different to what you see in the October 1942 photo FL 22375 at the bow. The dark panel comes all the way forward to the stem and a little way up it from the waterline and the top edge of this dark camouflage panel has a different profile. I therefore suspect that this 'NARA' photo is from the early period of Ithuriel’s service.

 

If then there is a photo of Ithuriel leaving her builders (as per Ned: in Maurice Cocker Destroyers of the Royal Navy 1893-1981 (London: Ian Allan, 1981) showing her portside in the kit’s design right at the outset of her career, I think we can take it to being more than a guess - Ithuriel must have had the different designs port and starboard throughout her service.

Edited by dickrd

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Having taken a close look at the photo in Cocker's book (captioned as "HMS Inconstant (ex-Turkish) entering Barrow on Builder's trials. Vickers" but clearly displaying pendants H05!) which shows her from the port bow, with some ill-defined land showing behind her, the dark panel on the port side forward is as dickrd describes in the NARA photo.

 

An undated photo showing part of her starboard side (with the same pattern as the photo taken in Malta) is at http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=118056&mode=view.

Edited by Our Ned
Typo

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