Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

11bravo

Coastal Command Mosquito Question

Recommended Posts

Hi folks,

 

Looking for some feedback on a particular Mosquito, specifically VV-A, as shown below.

 

X32058_2.jpg?t=

 

I've always had a thing for Banff Mosquitoes, I find that part of the war to be pretty fascinating (and neglected by many).  My question is - the few pics and profiles of VV-A all show this aircraft to be without rocket rails and underwing tanks.  Is this accurate?  I'm hoping it is because I really like the EDSG / Sky paint scheme.  I always thought that by the time this scheme was introduced, RP's were a standard fitting.  If this is the case, I can't build VV-A since there are no 32nd RP aftermarket kits out there.    If no RP's, would VV-A have still occasionally been fitted with bomb racks or external tanks?  If tanks, which size?

 

Any info you folks can provide is most greatly appreciated. 

Edited by 11bravo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tanks are droppable and interchangeable, they had no particular connection to a given airframe. There are no rocket rails nor, as far as I can see, stub fairings visible on the pictures of RS623 after its last mission, having been obliged to land in Sweden after being badly damaged by defending flak on a shipping strike on 4 May 1945. That said, the wings are pretty badly torn up so it is hard to be certain. No tanks, either, but of course they could have been dropped. If they were carried for the mission it's likely they were dropped before the strike. So you are probably safe building the aeroplane with clean wings.  I have not seen any other photos of RS623 so it's possible the only ones ever taken were those four, which would explain why all the profiles are clean, to conform with what may be the only piece of photographic evidence of appearance available.

 

However, if you want 1/32 RP then you will soon be able to get them from Aviaeology

https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p184/AES32001.html#/

Nothing to stop you building now and adding them later if you choose.

 

The pics of the shot-up RS623 are here

http://www.forcedlandingcollection.se/RAF/RAF112-RS623.html

 

 

Edited by Work In Progress

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here you go @11bravo NO rocket rails or tanks fitted when the photos were taken......NOT saying they hadn't been removed!

 

http://www.forcedlandingcollection.se/RAF/RAF112-RS623.html

 

Should you want 32nd rocket rails c/w rockets, Special Hobby do a set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

Here you go @11bravo NO rocket rails or tanks fitted when the photos were taken......NOT saying they hadn't been removed!

 

http://www.forcedlandingcollection.se/RAF/RAF112-RS623.html

The mounting bracket for the port drop tank is clearly visible in those photo's; whether drop tanks were fitted when it took off is another matter. They could have been left behind, dropped, shot away, lost on crash landing or removed during recovery, and if fitted, were they 50, 100 or 200 gal tanks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you could rule out the 200 gallon tank as the missions flown by Coastal would not require that sort of range capability, assuming that this large tank, normally carried by late PR aircraft, was stressed to combat values anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

I think you could rule out the 200 gallon tank as the missions flown by Coastal would not require that sort of range capability, assuming that this large tank, normally carried by late PR aircraft, was stressed to combat values anyway.

I think you're right there Graham, Coastal mainly used the 50 gal tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the beginning of March 1945 the tiered rocket rails were introduced on the Banff wing Mossies and with that fit the 100 gal tanks became the norm. Scale Modelling's Ultimate Guide to the Mosquito notes that the 50 gal tanks were rarely seen after Feb 1945. "A separate little war" records the 100 gal tanks being delivered by Stirling transport on 1/3/45.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100 gal tank for a PR.34 of 684 squadron detachment in the Cocos Is (Indian Ocean) July/Aug 1945, the squadron having received its first in June.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209710

 

According to Sharp & Bowyer's Mosquito the 200 gal tanks were designed for the PR .34 which did not see operational service in Europe, but arrived in time for the end of the war in the Far East as evidenced above. Not sure if they used the 200 gal tank or not but their longest flight was 2600 miles taking 9 hours and 5 mins.

 

544 squadron test fitted 200 gal tanks on a PR.XVI on 4/4/45 but when they tried to put fuel in, the additional weight changed the wing dihidral and caused sagging to the rear of the wings so they stopped filling after 50 gals. The plan was cancelled on 5/4/45! They then received their first PR.34 on 21st April 1945 and were "most impressed". So it suggests that the PR.34 had a beefed up wing to take the additional weight. Some photos here of the Mossie with 200 gal tanks post-war.

https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/Stock-Images/Rights-Managed/MEV-11950978

Edited by EwenS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/25/2019 at 10:43 AM, EwenS said:

From the beginning of March 1945 the tiered rocket rails were introduced on the Banff wing Mossies and with that fit the 100 gal tanks became the norm. Scale Modelling's Ultimate Guide to the Mosquito notes that the 50 gal tanks were rarely seen after Feb 1945. "A separate little war" records the 100 gal tanks being delivered by Stirling transport on 1/3/45.

Probably a long shot but does anyone make aftermarket 100 gal tanks?  As I understand it, only 50 gal ones come in the Tamiya kit.   With regard to the Aviology RP kit, I heard that this has been delayed for ages.  Any intel on if/when it will finally be released?

 

Thanks for all the great info, 

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Probably a long shot but does anyone make aftermarket 100 gal tanks?  As I understand it, only 50 gal ones come in the Tamiya kit.   

I googled it and this came up top 

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/parts-decals-for-aircraft-1:32-ams-resin-ams-32120

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used the AMS tanks on my Mosquito build from a few years ago along with the Avaieology decals. 

 

IMG_20161014_222726-L.jpg

 

The 100 gallon tanks in the HK kit are shaped wrong which is how the AMS tanks came about.

 

If you can get the Avaeiology decals, they include some very nice drawings for the tiered rocket setup as well as the droptank guards.

 

As for the Avaeiology rocket rails themselves, I'm still waiting for those to show up one some day. Every time I ask Terry about them, he says it's not much longer. 

 

Carl

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2019 at 11:15 AM, Work In Progress said:

Speaking of the external tanks you might be interested in seeing how they were constructed: very much like the rest of the aeroplane 

https://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/caring-for-our-collections/conservation-of-a-de-haviland-aviation-drop-tank

WIP,

 

Do you know what was used to line/seal the interior of the tanks? Like the 108-gallon paper tanks, I would imagine high octane avgas would soon eat through wood, impregnated paper, or paper mache tanks- just curious! BTW- neat link!

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Seep" rather than "eat" I would say, but in the case of the Mosquito tanks, which were definitely fit for more than one use, I agree some kind of liner seems likely, but I don't know what it was.

 

The 108 gallon paper-based tanks did not have a liner: they lasted long enough and no longer.

See the "paper-based drop tanks" section here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_tank

or indeed the source article here:

http://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/necessity-mother-invention-paper-drop-tanks-wwii.html

Edited by Work In Progress

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some tiered Mossie rockets.

 

36237651390_86a646b57b_c.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Some tiered Mossie rockets.

 

36237651390_86a646b57b_c.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

 

Did they really only have two tail fins?  Surprised they could hit anything....

 

How did that two tier setup work?   Did the lowers fire first or did all 4 go at the same time?    Did these Mossies originally just have two of the single launchers under each wing or did they get the setup above from day 1?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until the beginning of March 1945 the Mossie rocket fit was 4 rails on each wing, each with a single rocket, with no tanks. But on operations I don't think that they all necessarily flew with rockets.

 

I think that the above photo is of a prototype version. In the production version the rockets were staggered with the lower tier set forward of the upper tier. All the rockets could then have 4 fin tails. The other thing missing from this is the guard attached to the rails that sat between the inner rail and the tank to stop the rocket hitting the tank when fired. The rockets would be ripple fired, with the lowers launched seconds before the uppers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have thought that They would be fired altogether as the lower rockets otherwise had no guiderail

 

Also the guard rail was to stop the drop tank hitting the rockets - you would not fly into combat with drop tanks.

Edited by Scimitar F1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EwenS said:

Until the beginning of March 1945 the Mossie rocket fit was 4 rails on each wing, each with a single rocket, with no tanks. But on operations I don't think that they all necessarily flew with rockets.

 

I think that the above photo is of a prototype version. In the production version the rockets were staggered with the lower tier set forward of the upper tier. All the rockets could then have 4 fin tails. The other thing missing from this is the guard attached to the rails that sat between the inner rail and the tank to stop the rocket hitting the tank when fired. The rockets would be ripple fired, with the lowers launched seconds before the uppers.

Weren't some of Coastal's Mossies used as outriders, kind of riding shotgun and, thus, rocketless?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Some tiered Mossie rockets.

 

36237651390_86a646b57b_c.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

 

What I've never understood is how did they separate from the brackets which connect them both to each other and the rocket rail?  Was the bracket designed to fragmant or is there some other ingenous method?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said:

What I've never understood is how did they separate from the brackets which connect them both to each other and the rocket rail?  Was the bracket designed to fragmant or is there some other ingenous method?

what strikes me in the photo is the 2 fins only per rocket, which implies that they flew as a pair? (which is also mentioned above I now see)

A good chap for this kind of info is @Selwyn

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is good pictures and drawings of the rocket set-up in the Aviaeology information sheet that comes with their Canadians In Coastal Command #3 decal.

 

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

what strikes me in the photo is the 2 fins only per rocket, which implies that they flew as a pair? (which is also mentioned above I now see)

A good chap for this kind of info is @Selwyn

 

Yes, that did cross my mind as well. Never seen this arragement before.

 

On a slightly different tack I read with some amusement comments on You Tube, below some real footage of Mosquitos and Beaufighters attacking shipping in Norwegian fjords, about how the rockets seem to be impacting in to the water, short of the target and were, thus, incredibly innacurate, ignorant to the fact that it was actually deliberate because the detonation under water would cause more damage to the plates of a ship's hull than a direct hit would.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

There is good pictures and drawings of the rocket set-up in the Aviaeology information sheet that comes with their Canadians In Coastal Command #3 decal.

 

 

Chris

Very tempted to get some of their sheets. They look like a great package although the one I've got my eye on is the 418 Squadron Mossie sheet, particularly Moonshine McSwine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...