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Chief Cohiba

Roland CII guns - Parabellum vs Spandau

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Hi Guys, as it's sunday and I'm quite lazy, I wanted to tinker around a bit on some models (as we all love to do on sundays), while not are involved in something too overly complicated (cause I'm lazy) and therefore thought of installing the Gaspatch Parabellum 14 I bought on the Eduard/Revell Roland I finished so far some weeks ago.

 

I just wanted to mount the gun for the gunner/observer, mainly because I find this hump on the upper wing simply drop dead ugly and as I've seen it in various combination of guns mounted or not - well, it's like that.

 

37290986hl.jpg

 

37290988mj.jpg

 

37290989hd.jpg

 

But while testfitting with some bluetac I found the Parabellum extremely large, letting the gunner almost no space to sit behind. Could this be correct, being so large? On pictures on box art, etc., it usually looks smaller, but I've found no real picture where one can tell. I've also checked if Gaspatch packed a 1/32 erroneously, but a brief measurement proof it's correct.

 

37291034rm.jpg

 

37291035we.jpg

 

37291036vj.jpg

 

So I thought that maybe a Spandau lMG, which is quite shorter, could be correct?

 

But honestly, I've got no idea. What do you think? Input is welcome...

 

Thanks, Guenther

 

 

 

 

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Others likely know more, as my knowledge base on this is strictly found on the internet.   The gun mounted in the rear should be the Parabellum, and lengthwise it's only 4.7cm longer than the Spandau  (from wiki measurements).

 

Images show the 'ring mount' does have the weapon stepped forward so there is room for the observer/gunner.

 

albatros-c-1_900_1.jpg

 

full?d=1521489588

 

lbkoy3on7ozz.jpg

 

regards,

Jack

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Many thanks, Jack, this has been extremely helpful. Especially the picture with the ring mount details - I think I can cook from that.

In the meantime I've found some links pointing towards the Parabellum, but just wasn't too shure.

 

While not being the most expert model ever been build (my fist 1/48 rigging attempt), I think I will post it in the RFI once the gun is mounted. 

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That last photo reminds me of Max and Professor Fate in the Great Race movie! On a serious note, that is a very nice model!

Mike

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Yes the ring mounting - thingy extends and articulates to give the observer a limited downward field of fire (as I found to my cost playing Rise of Flight one day). If not 'extended' it means the gun usually rides quite 'high'. Your colour scheme is for an early CII so its unlikely to have a sychnronised front gun, though various lash ups were possible. Should have the 'roll cage' as just metal hoops - agree the later picnic table thing is horrid. Lots of superb pics on the Wingnut Wings site. Only just noticed the rear view mirror!

 

Roland%20C.II%20early%20fuselage%20cross

 

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12 hours ago, RHWinter said:

Here's a link to the pics on the Wingnut Wings site, TallBlondJohn has mentioned:

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3109&cat=1

 

Many thanks, that's of course valuable.

 

But these are Lewis guns on most of the pictures, not Parabellums, which are considerably longer, 1,28m vs. 0.96m of the Lewis in Aircraft spec. . I haven't seen the typical rectangular gunsight on any of these pictures.

 

So, I've seen no Roland CII with Parabellums for the observer but found them in any spec of the plane I've read. Interesting.

 

My plan at the moment is to mount the Parabellum, so that we have a precedence for the least (and I don't have to order another package from Gaspatch)... 

 

😉

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6 hours ago, Chief Cohiba said:

Many thanks, that's of course valuable.

 

But these are Lewis guns on most of the pictures, not Parabellums, which are considerably longer, 1,28m vs. 0.96m of the Lewis in Aircraft spec. . I haven't seen the typical rectangular gunsight on any of these pictures.

 

So, I've seen no Roland CII with Parabellums for the observer but found them in any spec of the plane I've read. Interesting.

 

My plan at the moment is to mount the Parabellum, so that we have a precedence for the least (and I don't have to order another package from Gaspatch)... 

 

😉

Hi Chief,

 

I'm not sure what you're looking at but none of those photos show a Lewis gun for the observer (the pilot sits in the front and the gunner/observer in the rear). There are multiple photos of a single Roland C.II with a captured Lewis gun on a mounting to fire forwards over the propeller, but not for the rear gunner/observer. 

 

there are even more photos here...

 

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3110&cat=1

 

And maybe looking at their instructions might help wit the mounting of your Parabellum MG...

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3109&cat=4

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3110&cat=4

 

Edited by wmcgill

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Guys, many thanks for your comments, which, erm, gave me some valuable insights.

 

Obviously I haven't read the WNW instructions thoroughly enough, as the information statet in there are as clear as it gets, thanks again for pointing me towards that.  It'll help in creating a gun ring (my guess it'll become the common one).

 

Neverthells the Parabellum looks gigantic...

 

 

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Wingnuts' online instructions and photos are a superb resource and the reason why my WWI 1/72 builds take a year each. Life used to be so simple!

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1 hour ago, Chief Cohiba said:

 

Neverthells the Parabellum looks gigantic...

 

 

I originally thought that too, but your blue-tack mock up doesnt get the gun in the right position - in use it swings up and back, giving the operator room (or he can get under it to fire upwards).

 

Here's a Rise of Flight video of a guy getting pranged by a Roland the same way I was. OK its a game but the models are done with care and are useful. Its long - he doesnt meet the Roland until 16 minutes in - but you can get an idea how the gun mount articulates (to his cost).


16:00 - begins intercept

16:20 "lets get underneath her, she cant use her guns"

16:30-16:45 Oh yes she can and you can see how!

17:15 lets try just approaching from behind... doesnt go well

17:25 "OK - they do seem to have a very manoeuvrable gun on the rear"

18:38 "bit dangerous" - good view of the mounting in action

19:12 long shot of the Roland

19:30 "Did I get him" - by sitting on his tail and just blasting away...

19:49 No you didn't - our gallant Brit (in a French plane) goes down to the dastardly Hun. Moral of the story: Don't understimate the Walfisch - its fast which makes you target practice for that rear gun!

 

 

 

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On 11/28/2019 at 3:14 PM, TallBlondJohn said:

 

I originally thought that too, but your blue-tack mock up doesnt get the gun in the right position - in use it swings up and back, giving the operator room (or he can get under it to fire upwards).

 

Yes, it's definitely not in the right position, but still seems to long for me - it almost reaches halfway to the rear fin, which looks much longer than on anything I've seen on any of the pictures. Maybe it looks a bit less oversized when moved a bit up with the gun ring. We'll see, tight now it's back in the shelf as I'm struggling with the Special Hobby Phoenix...

 

Thanks for the RoF video, I've just started with it a few weeks ago, with installing the DVD of the Iron Cross Edition I once bought years ago. And it's still as demanding as challenging as it was when I initially installed it. 😉

 

Being only a casual player I do lack a bit of time to reach the level of practise that's needed, but I'm onto it. Do you have any hints for the very bloody beginner?

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On 11/28/2019 at 3:14 PM, TallBlondJohn said:

 

I originally thought that too, but your blue-tack mock up doesnt get the gun in the right position - in use it swings up and back, giving the operator room (or he can get under it to fire upwards).

 

 

 

Many thanks for the video as well, I've just started a few weeks ago with RoF (again, after a few years break) but still in the learning phase. It takes a lot of rudder work, to keep this planes in position, right? 😉

 

Being only a casual player, it might deserve a bit more time than I am able to invest at the moment, but I can feel the immersion, if only in flying around and enjoying the scenery...

 

But, of course, I'm very grateful for any beginners hints from an obviously much more experienced player!

Edited by Chief Cohiba

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3 hours ago, Chief Cohiba said:

... but still seems to long for me - it almost reaches halfway to the rear fin, which looks much longer than on anything I've seen on any of the pictures.

 

That sounds about right, but just to be sure, it is a 1/48 scale gun you have from Gaspatch?

 

For comparison, I took the measurements off the internet for the lengths of the Parabellum MG14 and the Roland CII.  The quick study shows the gun should be at or slightly extend past the halfway point to the tail. 

 

sPYsDmh.jpg

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited by JackG

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On 11/30/2019 at 1:24 PM, Chief Cohiba said:

Many thanks for the video as well, I've just started a few weeks ago with RoF (again, after a few years break) but still in the learning phase. It takes a lot of rudder work, to keep this planes in position, right? 😉

 

Being only a casual player, it might deserve a bit more time than I am able to invest at the moment, but I can feel the immersion, if only in flying around and enjoying the scenery...

 

But, of course, I'm very grateful for any beginners hints from an obviously much more experienced player!

 

I confess I havent played in quite a while - practise is the main thing. Its not a simple arcade game for sure

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