ESCI Phantom recommended?

[iainpeden]

Does anybody know how many ESCI Phantoms were produced?

 

While I am thinking about it, don't use the BiCentennial boxing to model the actual a/c. The kit has the solid wing while the real a/c had outer wing slats welded open - it was a test configuration and was a mix of B, J and S. (Decals rubbish anyway)

[andyf117]

38 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

Does anybody know how many ESCI Phantoms were produced?

As in different boxings? Originally there were six, the E, C/J, RF-4C/E, Bi-Centennial J, Toned-Down F, and RAF J/S...

Edited November 25, 2019 by andyf117

[Giorgio N]

10 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

As in different boxings? Originally there were six, the E, C/J, RF-4C/E, Bi-Centennial J, Toned-Down F, and RAF J/S...

 

To add to these original ones, later I remember an ANG low visibility F-4C/D and a Desert Storm RF-4C under the Esci Ertl brand

[lasermonkey]

There was also the National Guard Bomber -C boxing, which I have in the stash.

 

An interesting clone of the Esci Phantom is the Kiddyland kit. This has parts for the C/J, E/F, S and RF-4C/E (though you have to fill in the rear missile recesses), plus some extra parts I haven't seen with any Esci releases., with decals for the Bicentennial scheme. Mould quality is rather crude. I bought a couple for what seemed like a bargain price, but the extra work that goes into them (if you thought the fit of the Esci kit could be a bit iffy, you're in for a treat here!) does make one question that decision somewhat.

[iainpeden]

13 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

There was also the National Guard Bomber -C boxing, which I have in the stash.

 

An interesting clone of the Esci Phantom is the Kiddyland kit. This has parts for the C/J, E/F, S and RF-4C/E (though you have to fill in the rear missile recesses), plus some extra parts I haven't seen with any Esci releases., with decals for the Bicentennial scheme. Mould quality is rather crude. I bought a couple for what seemed like a bargain price, but the extra work that goes into them (if you thought the fit of the Esci kit could be a bit iffy, you're in for a treat here!) does make one question that decision somewhat.

I think the extra parts were weaponry from the Monogram kit. The Kiddyland kit I got was so warped it was unmakeable .

 

37 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

As in different boxings? Originally there were six, the E, C/J, RF-4C/E, Bi-Centennial J, Toned-Down F, and RAF J/S...

Not different boxings but how many 10s of thousands came out of the moulding machines.

[Giorgio N]

A few more comments on the Esci Phantoms.. and others.

Would I buy an 1/72 Esci Phantom today ? Yes, but I'd buy some more than others...

In my experience they are nice kits and I can't remember any real drama when I built them. However the F-4E suffers from a bad representation of the intakes on the fuselage sides ahead of the windscreen. This IMHO spoils the lines of the long nose Phantoms. The Fujimi kit suffers from similar problems. The C/J is fine. For this reason I'd buy the C/J but maybe not the E. Said that, I do have an E in the stash and I will modify the area when the time comes to build it.

 

The cockpit of these kits (and the Fujimi and Italeri ones) is rightly criticised as lacking in detail. This is not the only problem, the worse thing is that everything, from the floor to the consoles, is too low into the fuselage, with the rear cockpit being particularly affected. When I built my Fujimi F-4F I used an Eduard zoom set, that is a good cheap way to add detail. However this meant having to modify the cockpit as otherwise the rear instrument panel would have been well below the canopy edge instead of having part of the panel above such edge as in the real Phantom.

For my later builds I followed Lasemonkey's same path and cloned the cockpit from the Fujimi British Phantom. This correctly represents the level at which the cockpit should be relative to the fuselage and the canopy and is a great improvement on the original kit parts. Here's how the resin clone fits in an early Fujimi F-4B, the one with the one piece canopy:

 

 

Of course this approach is not possible for everyone, in this case I can tell you that adding the Eduard zoom set may require some work, but really it wasn't all that difficult, as raising the consoles and the floor just required adding plasticard, keeping in mind that the rear cockpit needs to be brought higher than the front one.

 

Decals: now this is a problem with the Esci kits, not becase they were bad, those in the Phantoms were generally quite good (apart from the Bicentennial...). As others have said before, Esci decals were not made to withstand the test of time and most today will disintegrate as they touch water. We're of course talking about decals that in the case of proper Esci kits are more than 30 year old, but decals from other manufacturer can sometime be used after all this time, Esci ones don't.

[NorthBayKid]

1 hour ago, iainpeden said:

Not different boxings but how many 10s of thousands came out of the moulding machines.

 

Since ESCI has been gone as a company for over 25 years now, and as far as I know never released any sales figures (it was a small family owned company), I would say the answer is "no" to your question.

[alt-92]

and the funny thing was: their F-4/F-5 models are still regarded as the accurate ones from that time.

I would dearly see someone else do a good NF-5A, haven't seen one since the ESCI version.

[Aardvark]

On 11/25/2019 at 2:20 PM, Giorgio N said:

Decals: now this is a problem with the Esci kits, not becase they were bad, those in the Phantoms were generally quite good (apart from the Bicentennial...). As others have said before, Esci decals were not made to withstand the test of time and most today will disintegrate as they touch water. We're of course talking about decals that in the case of proper Esci kits are more than 30 year old, but decals from other manufacturer can sometime be used after all this time, Esci ones don't.

Varnish spray from airbrush on decal, no save ESCI decal ????

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[Hook]

23 hours ago, alt-92 said:

and the funny thing was: their F-4/F-5 models are still regarded as the accurate ones from that time.

I would dearly see someone else do a good NF-5A, haven't seen one since the ESCI version.

Esci's 1/72nd first -gen Harriers (repopped by Italeri in recent times) are little gems as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Andte

[Trenton guy]

I always thought the ESCI was a very good kit. Had great fun, many years ago, making a group of RAF/RN Phantoms using the ESCI kits, the lower rear fuselage and burner cans from the old Matchbos kits, and Spey intakes packed out with plastic card.

this was all before the Fujimi F-4K/M’s. Bought them when they came out but they are still in the stash. Still enjoy looking at the ESCI based ones.

 

As to cockpits, I agree that both the ESCI and the very similar Fujimi ones are pretty basic. I used Monogram ones which are very well detailed and fit like a glove (Monogram had both Navy and AF versions). Used the Monogram multi-part canopies as well. May seem wasteful to buy a kit just for the cockpit and canopy but the were dirt cheap in a local discount chain at the time. I think I eventually snagged 17 and used them in my collection of 10 Fujimi/ESCI Phantoms. The second generation Hasegawa Phantoms came later. Bought some but never felt the need. Just ordered the new Italeri/Fujimi Spey Phantom. Think I’ll get back in the game.

[Giorgio N]

17 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Varnish spray from airbrush on decal, no save ESCI decal ????

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

May work or not, there's no guarantee. Even using Microscale's Decal Film, that is generally better than just spraying varnish, I managed to save some but not all. Personally I would budget for replacement decals if buying an original Esci kit today, just in case

[BushBrit66]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:12 PM, Lord Riot said:

Are Esci kits any good these days? 

 

I only remember about 30 years ago building a 1/72 Esci Tornado and the shape looked weird compared to the Airfix one. I'm sure it must have improved since then though generally today Esci 1/48 F-16s seem cheaper on ebay than other brands.

 

 

ESCI died decades ago so new tooling for a while. Some of their old stuff is sti considered good like the 1/48 Phantom, Fiat G91 and Hs123. Some of it is awful like the F100 and F5. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by BushBrit66

[Gmat]

Sorry, but what is wrong with the 1/72 F-100D kit? The F-100F kit wasn’t as nice as the D kit. I still have a couple of ESCI F-100D kits and it and the F-104C kit go together really well and the faults aren’t major. At least from what I can see. Perhaps you mean a 1/48 F-100 kit. 

Not intending to start a war. 

Grant

[Aardvark]

6 hours ago, Gmat said:

Not intending to start a war. 

No no no,  hollywar is hollywar so !!!

😁😁😁

I join the question:

6 hours ago, Gmat said:

Sorry, but what is wrong with the 1/72 F-100D kit?

 What is wrong with the 1/72 F-100D & F-5A/C kit?

🤔😲

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

[NorthBayKid]

The ESCI F-100D is a beautiful kit. Far and away the best 1/72 Hun.

[Andre B]

On 11/27/2019 at 2:35 AM, Trenton guy said:

I always thought the ESCI was a very good kit. Had great fun, many years ago, making a group of RAF/RN Phantoms using the ESCI kits, the lower rear fuselage and burner cans from the old Matchbos kits, and Spey intakes packed out with plastic card.

this was all before the Fujimi F-4K/M’s. Bought them when they came out but they are still in the stash. Still enjoy looking at the ESCI based ones.

 

As to cockpits, I agree that both the ESCI and the very similar Fujimi ones are pretty basic. I used Monogram ones which are very well detailed and fit like a glove (Monogram had both Navy and AF versions). Used the Monogram multi-part canopies as well. May seem wasteful to buy a kit just for the cockpit and canopy but the were dirt cheap in a local discount chain at the time. I think I eventually snagged 17 and used them in my collection of 10 Fujimi/ESCI Phantoms. The second generation Hasegawa Phantoms came later. Bought some but never felt the need. Just ordered the new Italeri/Fujimi Spey Phantom. Think I’ll get back in the game.

 

The Monogram canopy parts fits the Fujimi and Esci kits?

[Trenton guy]

2 hours ago, Andre B said:

The Monogram canopy parts fits the Fujimi and Esci kits?

Very well indeed. I always open my canopies so fit is a little less critical. It remains critical for the front windscreen and that is a drop fit.

Bill

[Robertone139]

Which of the ESCI 1/72 kits contained pilots?

They seemed good in the instructions for the Bicentennial one.

[murfv]

5 minutes ago, Robertone139 said:

Which of the ESCI 1/72 kits contained pilots?

They seemed good in the instructions for the Bicentennial one.

I don't  ever remember the ESCI 1/72 Phantoms ever having pilots, at least not the RAF Phantom/F-4s(kit #9045) or the  F-4C/J(kit #9031) kits that I built back in the day.

I do remember Fujimi 1/72 F-14  and A-6 kits having some excellent pilot figures as well as the Monagram F-105 kit.

[iainpeden]

33 minutes ago, Robertone139 said:

Which of the ESCI 1/72 kits contained pilots?

They seemed good in the instructions for the Bicentennial one.

I have just checked the Bicenntenial kit; no crew figures.

[Robertone139]

On 11/25/2019 at 6:00 AM, lasermonkey said:

There was also the National Guard Bomber -C boxing, which I have in the stash.

 

An interesting clone of the Esci Phantom is the Kiddyland kit. This has parts for the C/J, E/F, S and RF-4C/E (though you have to fill in the rear missile recesses), plus some extra parts I haven't seen with any Esci releases., with decals for the Bicentennial scheme. Mould quality is rather crude. I bought a couple for what seemed like a bargain price, but the extra work that goes into them (if you thought the fit of the Esci kit could be a bit iffy, you're in for a treat here!) does make one question that decision somewhat.

I think I have one of those.

[Robertone139]

3 hours ago, iainpeden said:

I have just checked the Bicenntenial kit; no crew figures.

Given the post above I believe that it was the Kiddiland clone with the pilots.

At least in the instructions, but the one I have came with no pilots.