Humbrol Paint Quality Plummets

[John Thompson]

Have Humbrol decided to stop selling paint and go to pigment concentrates?! I just received five brand-new tinlets; two of them are so thick that the issue of brush versus airbrush is moot - an artist's palette knife is what's needed. Considering that there's a new hobby paint manufacturer springing up every week, you'd think Humbrol would try to get on top of that bothersome "quality thing", but maybe they're just too comfortable (and out of touch) with what they see as a captive market. And yes, I'll be messaging them to express my disappointment, for whatever good it might do.

 

John

[Space Ranger]

Be sure and include photos. I have a tin of 206 (Matt Fluorescent Fire Orange) that is thick like yours. I'm hoping it can be salvaged with judicious amounts of Humbrol thinner.

 

I buy "new old stock" Humbrol enamels, especially the Authentics, whenever I can and wherever I find it. That was great paint. Colors sometimes iffy, but at least it brushes and sprays better than most current enamels.

[stever219]

Can’t disagree: I have a recently-purchased tin of Humbrol 67 that’s been opened twice.  On the first occasion, after much stirring, it was just about useable for brush painting an area of a model that won’t be easily visible when  finished.  On the second occasion it was impossible to get a satisfactory paint-to-thinners ratio that would allow it to be applied by brush and it’s never going to produce an acceptable medium for airbrushing (not that I have one).  On the other hand I recently re-opened a tin of Humbrol Authentic HX1 that hasn’t been opened since before I moved to my present home over 21 years ago: two easily thinned coats no problems.

 

If I could get Sovereign Models Colourcoats, which I can’t get through the post, I’d swap to them as I’ve never had any joy with either Revell or Xtracolour enamels.  If anyone from Hornsby/Humbrol is reading this PLEASE FOLKS, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER, GIVE US DECENT QUALITY PAINTS AND STOP ALIENATING LOYAL CUSTOMERS.  I’ve used Humbrol for over 50 years and I have never had as many instances of almost totally unusable paint as I have over the last few years.  If Aeromaster acrylics were still available I’d use them, with some caveats (their interpretation of RAF Dark Green is far too light) but they aren’t so I can’t and please don’t start me off on brush painting Tamiya acrylics: horrid!

[alhenderson]

I had huge problems with flourescent orange (209, I think?) for my recent Airfix Gnat.  Bought an acrylic version and an enamel version and they were woeful.  No coverage whatsoever when brushing - I tried coat after coat and got nowhere.  Went to their website and complained, they asked for the batch numbers.  Claimed one of them was from China and the other was really old (had bought them both within the last few months).  To their credit, they sent out 4 (???!) replacement tins.  They were no better, sadly.

 

In various conversations I gather that they airbush better than they paint, but that's not the point.  Surely any tin of humbrol should be paintable?  

 

Al.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

28 minutes ago, alhenderson said:

flourescent orange (209, I think?)

 

As much as seeing competitors panned brings me joy, my sense of integrity forces me to defend them here.

 

Most paints contain numerous pigments, and mid to light tones are generally made by starting with a lot of white pigment for density then tinting it. If you imagine a rainbow and the colours you see being the most intense versions of themselves which your eyes can perceive, then you can see that you can make less intense versions akin to more usual colours by adding intense colour pigment to grey. The pigments available are typically the most intense coloured 'thing' we can mine or manufacture then grind down. We can't make a colour more intense than the intensity of a colour pigment, but we can easily add them to one another and make less intense colours.

 

Flourescent orange however is a very, very weak pigment with hardly any staining power. It's not possible to cut it with anything to cheat and make it more densely covering or the colour rapidly loses its intensity and stops being flourescent.

 

Our's is no better for brushing. It's the pigment rather than the paint.

 

We can't just keep adding more and more pigment either because the pigment needs to be fully suspended in binder if it's to work like a paint, dry and adhere in place. Trying to boost the staining power of flourescent orange paint by flooding it with more pigment will result in a substance that doesn't stay in place and you'll have orange fingers every time you touch it thereafter.

 

It's just a pig of a colour to make as a paint, and really needs to be airbrushed over white or light yellow to get a good finish.

[alhenderson]

7 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

As much as seeing competitors panned brings me joy, my sense of integrity forces me to defend them here.

 

Most paints contain numerous pigments, and mid to light tones are generally made by starting with a lot of white pigment for density then tinting it. If you imagine a rainbow and the colours you see being the most intense versions of themselves which your eyes can perceive, then you can see that you can make less intense versions akin to more usual colours by adding intense colour pigment to grey. The pigments available are typically the most intense coloured 'thing' we can mine or manufacture then grind down. We can't make a colour more intense than the intensity of a colour pigment, but we can easily add them to one another and make less intense colours.

 

Flourescent orange however is a very, very weak pigment with hardly any staining power. It's not possible to cut it with anything to cheat and make it more densely covering or the colour rapidly loses its intensity and stops being flourescent.

 

Our's is no better for brushing. It's the pigment rather than the paint.

 

We can't just keep adding more and more pigment either because the pigment needs to be fully suspended in binder if it's to work like a paint, dry and adhere in place. Trying to boost the staining power of flourescent orange paint by flooding it with more pigment will result in a substance that doesn't stay in place and you'll have orange fingers every time you touch it thereafter.

 

It's just a pig of a colour to make as a paint, and really needs to be airbrushed over white or light yellow to get a good finish.

Thanks for the explanation Jamie, much appreciated.  I'm having similar problems brushing gloss white at the moment.  Started out with a Mr Hobby acrylic - it was hopeless for brushing, so thin.  I also tried Humbrol acrylic, no better.  I have now switched to humbrol enamel.  Its better but I'm still very glad I'm not painting a 1970s USN fighter with it! 

 

Paint is just baffling me at the moment.  I was a modeller in the 90s mainly and never seemed to have any problems with the paints (my mum would disagree looking at the state of my bedroom carpet back then, but that's another matter!!).  Everything was enamel, and the choices were pretty much humbrol or Xtracolour, both of which I used.  Nowadays there's a baffling array of paint options but it becomes a very expensive business searching for the best one.  So, was paint better back then, or have I just got rose tinted specs on?

 

I really don't want to get an airbush.  I know the finish is nicer and the end result will almost certainly be better, but every time I think about it and look into it there seems to be a baffling amount of kit you need.  Compressors, tanks etc.  Never mind cleaning it, and having to thin the paint before hand.  Just puts me right off..

 

Al.

[PhantomBigStu]

Guessing this thread is about the enamels, but I can speak this is not true for acrylics, quality has been very iffy during the original flip top area (right), and then still a little hit and miss with the screw top in between, but they seem to have reformulated them for the newly issued larger flip top pots (left) and the quality has been uniformly good  

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by PhantomBigStu

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

30 minutes ago, alhenderson said:

Thanks for the explanation Jamie, much appreciated.  I'm having similar problems brushing gloss white at the moment.  Started out with a Mr Hobby acrylic - it was hopeless for brushing, so thin.  I also tried Humbrol acrylic, no better.  I have now switched to humbrol enamel.  Its better but I'm still very glad I'm not painting a 1970s USN fighter with it! 

 

Paint is just baffling me at the moment.  I was a modeller in the 90s mainly and never seemed to have any problems with the paints (my mum would disagree looking at the state of my bedroom carpet back then, but that's another matter!!).  Everything was enamel, and the choices were pretty much humbrol or Xtracolour, both of which I used.  Nowadays there's a baffling array of paint options but it becomes a very expensive business searching for the best one.  So, was paint better back then, or have I just got rose tinted specs on?

 

I really don't want to get an airbush.  I know the finish is nicer and the end result will almost certainly be better, but every time I think about it and look into it there seems to be a baffling amount of kit you need.  Compressors, tanks etc.  Never mind cleaning it, and having to thin the paint before hand.  Just puts me right off..

 

Al.

 

Hmm I understand. In my case it's rose tinted specs for sure but I wont speak for others. I still have some old models from the same era and what I thought I was achieving at the time and how they look now leaves a bit of a gap.

 

Airbrushing is clouded in mystique but there's not much to it really and much of what's often said to be essential is a nice-to-have. Most of the gubbins you've heard about come already attached to the compressor. People just get rather empassioned when debating which features the stuff ought to have. Still, as much as I love mine it's not for everyone - you need somewhere to do it and irrespective of what kind of paint is used the airbrush works by getting the stuff airborne and things will over time gain particles from overspray so it's not suitable for people who have to work in a shared living room or kitchen area of a house.

[alhenderson]

50 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Hmm I understand. In my case it's rose tinted specs for sure but I wont speak for others. I still have some old models from the same era and what I thought I was achieving at the time and how they look now leaves a bit of a gap.

 

Airbrushing is clouded in mystique but there's not much to it really and much of what's often said to be essential is a nice-to-have. Most of the gubbins you've heard about come already attached to the compressor. People just get rather empassioned when debating which features the stuff ought to have. Still, as much as I love mine it's not for everyone - you need somewhere to do it and irrespective of what kind of paint is used the airbrush works by getting the stuff airborne and things will over time gain particles from overspray so it's not suitable for people who have to work in a shared living room or kitchen area of a house.

I think you're right about rose tinted specs.  If any of my models had survived I'd probably look at them in a different light now.  I go through phases of thinking I'm going to get an airbrush, but I build in the spare room and there's too much scope for changing the colour of the bed sheets of the washing that's drying etc so the idea keeps getting shelved.  

 

Al.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Painting the washing is best avoided!

[Ratch]

I'm not so sure the OP is about enamels (though it would have been good to make it plain). The last pot of Humbrol Acrylic I bought was four years ago, Hu:65,and a horrible lump of congealed pigment was in it.

I started painting with those jars of Airfix enamels that took forever to dry. Maybe it just seemed that way because I was an impatient child. With Matchbox kits I moved on to Humbrol enamels, both the regular range and the Authentics. I used them happily for many years. I also tried Xtraenamels, Citadel/Games Workshop, W&N oils and Tamiya paints but never got on with any of them. Then SWMBO announced she didn't like the smell of enamels and white spirit so I switched to acrylics (this was probably the best part of 10 years ago now). The Airfix Gift Set paints (Humbrol Rifle Target acrylics) were getting bad reviews all over and I was advised to try Vallejo. I'm a convert and Vallejo are my 'go to' brand. That said, I had accumulated many RT acrylics (I'm a hoarder and hate to throw stuff away) and tried them - they were not as bad as previously reported. I've had the odd bad pot, but then I've also had an odd pot of Vallejo that was not the right consistency either.

With my rose coloured specs on, I can't recall having a bad pot of Humbrol enamel (all those years ago), but then my memory isn't perfect.

[John Thompson]

Sorry - enamels! You're right - back in the Olden Days when Pontius was a pilot, Humbrol enamels worked great. Now? Very iffy. My admittedly limited sample of current product was 40% bad. I'd advise buying only in a hobby shop - shake the tinlet, and if you don't feel/hear paint moving inside, give it to the shop owner and tell him to return it. Buying online, sight unseen/tinlet unshaken? Don't.

 

John

Edited November 20, 2019 by John Thompson

[Space Ranger]

3 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

We can't just keep adding more and more pigment either because the pigment needs to be fully suspended in binder if it's to work like a paint, dry and adhere in place. Trying to boost the staining power of flourescent orange paint by flooding it with more pigment will result in a substance that doesn't stay in place and you'll have orange fingers every time you touch it thereafter.

 

It's just a pig of a colour to make as a paint, and really needs to be airbrushed over white or light yellow to get a good finish.

And in fact Humbrol makes (or made) a Base White – number 206 – intended as a base coat for their fluorescent paints. I assume it was matt, but having never seen any, I'm neither certain nor know if it differed from their regular Matt White.

 

Considering the way day-glo faded on real airplanes, it sounds to me like Humbrol's fluorescent paints are extremely prototypical!

[alhenderson]

18 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

And in fact Humbrol makes (or made) a Base White – number 206 – intended as a base coat for their fluorescent paints. I assume it was matt, but having never seen any, I'm neither certain nor know if it differed from their regular Matt White.

 

Considering the way day-glo faded on real airplanes, it sounds to me like Humbrol's fluorescent paints are extremely prototypical!

I wasn't aware of this.  Might have been interesting to try that on my gnat.  Base coats and primers were never anything I used before (or was even aware of as a spotty teenager modeller!), hence didn't occur to me this time round.  And of course, you're right, dayglo on the real thing often looks badly faded.  

 

Al.

[Ratch]

On 20/11/2019 at 15:52, Space Ranger said:

And in fact Humbrol makes (or made) a Base White – number 206 – intended as a base coat for their fluorescent paints.

That hasn't been in the range since 1995, surely that says something.

[Space Ranger]

10 minutes ago, Ratch said:

That hasn't been in the range since 1995, surely that says something.

That "new" tin of Humbrol 206 I purchased a few weeks ago may have been that old! I'm hoping I can salvage something out of it.

[Tentacles]

I've had some very gloopy new tins of Humbrol enamel, but so far I've always been able to save them - few drops of thinners or spirits, stir a few minutes, repeat... Maybe I've just been lucky - in being given the sort of dull mind that finds mindlessly stirring paint for 10 minutes therapeutic in a zen sort of way.