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Revel T6G Texan - NOW as a Harvard IIB rather than a Harvard 4 (due to canopy alteration)


Jon020

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Hi all. Following on from completing my airfix phantom I thought I'd dive right back into the small stash Ive built up recently, ignore the few airfix small ones (that I'll add to from Lidl this week) and dive into something that looks tricky but because I've been involved in a few that have gained their Permit to Fly or Certificate of Airworthiness in the last year or two I really wanted to build one. And... there's  seemingly not much choice when it comes to kits (why on earth is that? we've so many here in the UK) but yes, the Revel T6G that I'll do as a  CCF Harvard 4 (primarily because of the fewer individual panels in the glazing).  I'll admit that I was horrified when I opened the massive box for the first time as it looked like a new kit. No. I'm guessing early 80s - the Heller one? The raised panel lines looked crude (and there are ones for the underwing gun pods) So, having given it some thought, I decided to look about to see what aftermarket bits I could acquire - no not much - so I've elected to clean off the wing sections and rescribe with my tamiya scribe tool (a bit crude I guess, but I'll try). I've done this to the upper surfaces and cleaned off the lower surfaces, but there were a number of awful sink marks and scuffs that I'm filling with a mix of sprue/plastic shavings and tamiya thin glue to melt it all together to give a smooth surface that I'll then scribe the panel lines in to. The fuselage will be a bit more of a challenge, but I'll take it carefully. I've already rubbed down the extra thick section near the front of the nose but it needs more rubbing back - what on earth dis Revel/heller think was under that panel!

Anyway a couple of quick dirty in progress shots.

 

Intent is to present this like Richard Grace's G-CJWE which lacks the Canadian cabin heater on the starboard side although I'll have to do a bit more on removing some more of the upper canopy frames. It'll provide a nice project to test the Alclad II paint I've recently bought a few of to try - polished aluminium in this case I think. Anyway... that's a way off yet.

 

Upper surfaces crudely rescribed

49086769192_755942913b_b.jpgIMG_20191118_201908535_HDR by Jonathan Hughes, on Flickr

Yes.. this will need some work

49086768992_69de722b53_b.jpgIMG_20191118_201840419_HDR by Jonathan Hughes, on Flickr

 

Anyway... hopefully, as long as this doesn't end up in the bin I'll report more later.

 

Cheers 

Jonathan

 

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Yes, it was the Heller tool, which inspired the Academy one, which in turn inspired the Hobbyboss.  The only other 1/72 T-6 kits are the old Airfix one and even older Hawk, which at least were WW2 ones.  Plus a couple of short run Wirraways.

 

The reason for the lack of kits is that they weren't killing machines (at least not usually) - there is no wide choice of toolings for any trainer.  I except the Hawk...

 

PS  If you steer clear of major companies there are quite a lot of Jungmann around, or has been, and quite a few Bestmann.  Of course, they carry swastikas.

Edited by Graham Boak
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I can see how the Academy kit was inspired by the Heller T-6. I've just finished three with another on the go, and it looks almost identical. I have a few Heller T-6s in the stash, but they all have a bad case of anhedral, which my Academy kits did not. Nice straight forward, no nonsense build which look nice when finished.

 

Looking forward to the progress on your Revell/Heller kit. 

 

Steve

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19 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

are you intending to do anything with the T-6 canopy to make it a proper Harvard unit??

 

Tony

Hi Tony.... I'll have to look at at that! There looks to be differences at the rear with a completely clear hood, but I might take a view seeing if it's easy to manipulate, and yes there are too many frames on the top section for a Harvard 4. To cross when I get to it 😉

cheers

Jonathan

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22 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Yes, it was the Heller tool, which inspired the Academy one, which in turn inspired the Hobbyboss.  The only other 1/72 T-6 kits are the old Airfix one and even older Hawk, which at least were WW2 ones.  Plus a couple of short run Wirraways.

 

The reason for the lack of kits is that they weren't killing machines (at least not usually) - there is no wide choice of toolings for any trainer.  I except the Hawk...

 

PS  If you steer clear of major companies there are quite a lot of Jungmann around, or has been, and quite a few Bestmann.  Of course, they carry swastikas.

Hi Graham, I think you're right - so there must be some glamour attached to Hawks, Gnats and er Jet Provosts. I think there's an opportunity lost as I'm sure people would like a model of a 'plane they've flown it, be that a Harvard or Stearman .... or T9 Spitfire come to think of it. One day perhaps.
cheers

J

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I think any glamour attached to Jet Provosts is entirely within the UK and limited to a certain age group.  The Red Arrows drive the interest in the Gnat, nowadays.  Agreed that modellers fancy models of planes they have flown in, or at least I and clearly you do, but that is a very small market compared with that needed for a mass producer, I suspect that very few have ever flown in either a Stearman or a Harvard  (I haven't.)   Certainly compared with how may will have flown in some derivative of the Cessna 170 or Piper Cherokee.  The Stearman/Boeing Kaydet (there were other Stearman aircraft, including at least one that made it into model form) is the US equivalent of the Tiger Moth, well enough known to generate some interest - I have both the Revell and Pavla one, and others exist in larger scales.  The Harvard has at least rarely been unavailable, just limited in versions.  But these are still very limited compared to warplanes built in equivalent numbers and much less widely employed.

 

Perhaps I should add that there have been at least two 1/72 kits of the Po.2, which must outnumber any other aircraft in this category by a multiple factor!

Edited by Graham Boak
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Jonathon….

 

What Tony meant by a 'proper Harvard canopy' was that a Harvard canopy is an additional 1/2 frame right after the rear seat.  While the clear rear canopy did exist on a few examples, it was not the norm.   If you choose to do one with a frameless rear canopy, then photos of your subject aircraft would be in order.

 

As your intention is to do a RCAF Harvard 4, the frameless rear canopy isn't an option.  A good link showing the evolution of the Harvard canopy can be found here.  You'll note the earlier style has a few more frames than the Harvard 4, but that added 1/2 frame at the rear, is a common feature.  The Falcon Clear-vax set no. 30, contains both a very nice Harvard II and Texan T6G canopy   I'll be doing a RCAF Harvard 4 in the future from the Heller kit and I plan to take Falcon's T6G canopy, which has the required reduced number of frames overall and mate the rear canopy portion of the Harvard II canopy with it to give me a proper Harvard 4.

 

Scott

Edited by Scott Hemsley
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Just as an aside, the CMK Harvard conversion set has been re-released. It's basically just the longer canopy in vac form plus the longer exhaust in resin. Very useful though.

 

Steve

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Hang on, here were a lot of RAF Harvards with the shorter (Texan) canopy.  All Mk.IIA and IIIs, which came from the North American line.  The longer fixed canopy was intended for pilot training, the shorter one pivoted to ahead of the rear seat for use in gunnery training.  This was introduced on the T-6, but by then the licence had been signed for Canadian production with what was basically a T-6 with the longer fixed rear canopy.   This became the RAF's Mk.IIB.  The Harvard Mk.I also had the longer canopy, predating the T-6.  (The gunnery training canopy had also been seen on earlier members of the family such as the BT-9B, but the story can get complicated rapidly...)

 

Post war all Lend-Lease aircraft had to be returned, so the ones seen in RAF service postwar were the Canadian-built example.  (Or at least almost all, I think a few others were retained somehow.)  It has long been a complaint that kit manufacturers keep providing markings for Mk.IIBs for toolings of T-6s.  Hello Airfix, Revell...  The Aftermarket kept offering distorted canopies claiming to have the extra frames but without the longer length, until Falcon eventually did one.  I picked up a stock, but sadly I don't think it is available separately any more.  I think you can use the canopy of Special Hobby's NA57, but my copies have all yellowed so I can't recommend that.

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the OP's intended aircraft has a SNJ type clear frameless canopy at the rear.   

 

Tony

 

PS  I have a CMK Harvard conversion on the way currently and have a stock of home copied AirModel Harvard canopies.  Aeroclub made on too

 

 

Edited by Tony Edmundson
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  • 4 weeks later...

Just when I thought that I'd basically got to grips with T6/Harvard variations.... I'd not noticed the canopy length differences, but I think I know what you mean. The number of frames is an easy tell tale that's clear but I'll look again. Making this as a IIB would be nice as I've cleared two of these giving me more choice of subject. It's bad enough trying to deal with NA built versions under FAA A-2-575, Canadian Car Foundry 2 and 4 aircraft under TCCA A-80 and the noorduyn licence built AT16 as IIB aircraft that straddle A-2-575 and A-80 limitations... some with the exhaust cabin heater and some without. Yup.... it's a minefield. Anyway. I'll take a look at the replacement canopies (thanks) and exhaust heater.

A little progress has been achieved after I removed the extreme raised panel lines in the wings and rescribed... but I've left the fuselage panel lines after checking photos that confirm the extreme degree of round head rivetting that this can represent. The cockpit has been detailed a little and I've drilled-out shallow holes for the fuel tank filling points in the upper wings, with plastic rod pieces to represent the filler caps... cockpit details still a WIP but mostly evergreen strip and plasticard. Seatbelt will go on at the end. I'll not do much more as the canopy will be closed. 

Thanks for the continued information... and I'll keep progress posted.

Thanks....

Jonathan

Cockpit details in work

 

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A little progress.... interior has received some paint, a mix of humbrol enamel shades. Nothing too detailed, but enough for some texture given that the heavily framed canopy will be closed. seat belts are thin strips of tamiya masking tape (not totally accurate, but will probably do for this one.

49254181111_d786fe6a71_b.jpgCockpit ready to enclose. Rearward view by Jonathan Hughes, on Flickr

49254379282_c8f4d10ac6_b.jpgCockpit ready to enclose. Forward view by Jonathan Hughes, on Flickr

Fuselage is now assembled and some filler has been applied... The wings are on too - and the same here. Once it's all "set" I'll post some more pics.

I bought a resin replacement engine ... but having fettled it, I found its too big to fit in the cowling. So I'll probably stick with the fit one and add some detail to the HS prop hub... and save the R1340 for another day

Jonathan

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On 18 November 2019 at 9:12 PM, Graham Boak said:

The reason for the lack of kits is that they weren't killing machines (at least not usually) - there is no wide choice of toolings for any trainer.

A true but sad fact :) but then it is us, collectively, that is driving such narrow minded views. The manufacturers only produce as a reflection of our wishes. There are some very attractive trainer types and versions that we are being deprived of. :(.

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner
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A little late for your current build, but maybe your next one.  RES-IM made a nice colour photoetch set for the T-6.  It was made by Eduard and intended for the Academy kit, but with the similarities, it should work fine with the Heller kit.  Falcon also does a vac form canopy set that covers several of the Harvard / Texan variants. 

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4 hours ago, Wm Blecky said:

A little late for your current build, but maybe your next one.  RES-IM made a nice colour photoetch set for the T-6.  It was made by Eduard and intended for the Academy kit, but with the similarities, it should work fine with the Heller kit.  Falcon also does a vac form canopy set that covers several of the Harvard / Texan variants. 

Thanks Wm.... I took a look at the RES-IM site and like the stuff they have but couldn't find the T6 bits, but I'll bookmark the site for the future. I've got the falcon set now so this will now probably be a IIB.

Cheers

Jonathan

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A quick pre Christmas update, having spent a little time the last couple of days on this. Body assembled with wings, some filler and smoothed. Wing needed some repairs underneath (central flap) after the thin glue melted the join to the fuselage but this should do. Cockpit roll over frame added and upper plate added. Rubber frame around front cockpit coaming (microstrip) all painted black after filing/sanding down... and small rod piece used to represent compass on coaming.

Prop hub detail added... core drilled out and small rod added to represent hex bolt head... counterweight pieces made from slithers stretched sprue... and thinner stretched sprue for hub clamp bolts.

I've a resin exhaust heat shroud that will take some fettling (including the fuselage). Tailplane just pushed in... not glued, cowling taped on just for a trial fit.

Trial assembly

 

Cockpit

 Undercarriage bays were a little sloppy so I filled these with strips of plastic card and strip and a few rib ends per photos of G-CIUW. Not too detailed and may add a few wires, but it'll do for now.

Wheel wells

 

Jonathan

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been dabbling with the canopy options. I acquired the CMR canopy and the Falcon set. I wasn't overly impressed with the CMR one as it was quite large; I couldn't see how to make it fit.

I don't think the CMR canopy was ever going to fit. Time to try the Falcon one.

So I took a look at the falcon ones... and went for the IIB canopy that needed the rear deck removing. I wish I'd done this before assembly, but lesson learned. A thin saw blade and careful sanding after achieved the results wanted.

Looking a little rough here though.

 

Removing rear deck to enable fit of Falcon vac form canopy for IIB conversion

The falcon vac-formed canopy was tidied and test fitted on several occasions until I was happy enough!

I added some additional interior decking and some microstrip to reinforce the attachment. Seen here with the three canopies.... Falcon, Heller original and CMR... 

Harvard IIB awaiting Falcon canopy attachment. Original T6G canopy in middle and oversized CMR canopy on right.

 

Hopefully after a little tidying. It'll come together.

I'll change the title of this thread now that this will be a IIB ... although that means I still need to source decals, and they're hard to come by. 

Something like G-BDAM or G-CIUW would be my aim.

Cheers

Jonathan

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  • Jon020 changed the title to Revel T6G Texan - NOW as a Harvard IIB rather than a Harvard 4 (due to canopy alteration)

And so, with the canopy fitted and sealed, the task of masking begins. Tamiya thin tape cut into thin strips (very thin on windscreen) place around and windscreen a with maskol.

Might take some time this!

Canopy masking begins

 

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On 6 January 2020 at 10:30 PM, Jon020 said:

Something like G-BDAM or G-CIUW would be my aim.

I flew, and flew in, G-BDAM in 1993 with my friend Norman Lees :). At that time she was still in the WW2 RAF colours overpainted with spurious Japanese markings.

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner
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9 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

I flew, and flew in, G-BDAM in 1993 with my friend Norman Lees :). At that time she was still in the WW2 RAF colours overpainted with spurious Japanese markings.

 

Martin

Hi Martin. It came back to the UK, last year I think.... or 2018, and now looks like this in yellow.

Interesting to hear of your association though. Thanks

Out for a spin - Harvard IIB

 

Edited by Jon020
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I'm keen to see this come together Jon, there're a few RNZAF Harvards I want to model including a couple of the early ones. Interesting to see how well the CMR canopy doesn't fit, I'll likely not bother with that set now, I'm sure I could cobble up the long exhaust by cutting & shutting some sprue sections. A pity Falcon only do those early canopies one per set. :(

Steve.

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