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As a result of the close-down of the UK by the British Government last night, we have made all the Buy/Sell areas read-only until we open back up again, so please have a look at the announcement linked here.

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I'll be following this with some interest as I want to get hold of this kit and do like Peter and finish it as an Israeli Improvised A/C.

 

John.

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Nice to have you along John, nut sure it'll be worthy of your exalted company after your successful Suarez to Telford, but one will try! :worthy:

 

On a more sensible note, hope you get all sorted at home to your satisfaction after the unfortunate structural failure. 

 

At least no one was under it at the time.

(Imho it's the only way to look at these things).

 

Best wishes

Darryl 

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Nice work Darryl - it's a lovely kit - I've built one and got one in the stash

Looking forwards to seeing this unfold

Rob

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20 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Nice work Darryl - it's a lovely kit - I've built one and got one in the stash

Looking forwards to seeing this unfold

Rob

Thanks Rob, alas, I'm not the quickest modeller around but nice to have you along. Feel free to through in any suggestions or things to I need to watch out for. 

 

Cheers

Darryl

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Hi Darryl - as to colour - you are on the right lines - I'm sure I'm right in thinking these were Canadian built so SCC2 and SCC15 with several examples displaying "light Mud" and "Tarmac" from the Italian campaign.

The only other source of Light mud that I'm aware of is https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/  whose naval range are unsurpassed though I've yet to use any armour colours.  Be warned you have to buy a minimum of 6 tins and it's definitely worth using their thinners

Even though they are enamels - they don't really smell or behave like them (In a nice way!!!) if you use their thinners

I can't recall any particular problems with construction though switched wheels for Panzer Art replacements that interestingly were significantly bigger.

Here's mine

 

49169285363_996df76b79_b.jpgDSCF7155 by Rob Matthews, on Flickr

 

Keep it coming - it really is a nice kit

rob

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That's a tremendous job you've done there Rob, I do like the faded, worn and dusty finish you've achieved, perfect!

 

You aren't the only person to suggest a change of wheels. Once its painted and feel I'm going to be happy with it I might just change them.

 

In two minds over the finished scheme, quite fancy the Italian campaign one in light stone and brown. I assume this would have been a theatre applied light stone over the scc2? (Light stone and light mud, one and the same?)

However a single colour is a lot less trouble than a hard edge camouflage!

 

Just about to start painting the interior, once done I can see how it'll come together. 

 

Thanks again for showing yours, it's brilliant and the base and figure sets it off very nicely. 

 

Cheers

Darryl 

 

 

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Hi Darryl

"Light mud" was specific to the Italian campaign and is a distinctly different colour from Light Stone

This is worth a read...https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/

I don't believe these vehicles were used in N Africa where Light Stone might have been a choice (though in truth they were used in the Middle east?)

And BTW -I painted my interior white (bit of a punt because I can't recall seeing an interior other than on restored examples)

Keep it coming

Rob

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9 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Hi Darryl

"Light mud" was specific to the Italian campaign and is a distinctly different colour from Light Stone

This is worth a read...https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/

I don't believe these vehicles were used in N Africa where Light Stone might have been a choice (though in truth they were used in the Middle east?)

And BTW -I painted my interior white (bit of a punt because I can't recall seeing an interior other than on restored examples)

Keep it coming

Rob

Hi Rob, foolish I know but I was tempted to go with one of the kit supplied schemes, 7th Arm Div, Italy 44, which suggested light stone with dark brown. The other two being Olive Drab, one as yours in Scc2 and the other I would guess, as its Normandy 44, scc15.

Would the Scc15 ones have been earlier scc2 models repainted?

 

As for interior, I would suggest you're on a safe bet with white, could have been silver I've heard but white is the obvious choice, in my mind.

 

Thanks for the info re Light stone and mud and the link to mafva.

 

Darryl

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Slow crawl of progress, think tectonic plates. 

 

Started on the main body, basics assembled and awaiting paint.spacer.png

 

On the left is the turret top and bottom.

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Major components set aside ready to prime.

Hope to have primed and painted asap, keen to get together to assess how it mates up with chassis. 

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

Darryl

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Thanks Francis,  experimenting with a black primer prior to a white interior....

 

Works well with the exterior paintwork, not sure about it with the white of the interior.:hmmm:

 

Cheers

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13 hours ago, robgizlu said:

"Light mud" was specific to the Italian campaign and is a distinctly different colour from Light Stone

I don't believe these vehicles were used in N Africa where Light Stone might have been a choice (though in truth they were used in the Middle east?)

Light Mud was authorised in Tunisia in April 43, just a month before fighting ceased.  However, it was implemented immediately (we didn't know how long the fighting would continue) on vehicles including armoured cars.  There is some evidence of that colour being used a month or more in advance of the official order.  While the MAFVA guide is useful, it is only a summary of the full set of Mike Starmer's booklets.  I reccommend getting them from him if you are into British armour in WW2.

 

RAF certainly had Otters in Tunisia, according to the comprehensive book "in Every Place" about the RAF A/C Companies.  There is a photo in that book which, although b/w, shows either Light Mud over SCC2 or Light Stone over SCC2.  I found a picture of an Otter with 7th Armd Div markings, but despite the palm trees the civilians around it looked Italian in dress rather than Tunisian.  So maybe no Army ones in Tunisia??

 

These are RAF Regt Otters in Italy, date unknown.  From the colour contrast and the contrast with the soil and uniform colours I would say Light Mud over SCC15.  Which would make it late '44.  While at first sight looking "wrong", if you step back it actually works as a disruptive pattern - which were supposed to disguise and confuse, not hide.

WS5VvIG.jpg

 

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7 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

These are RAF Regt Otters in Italy, date unknown.  From the colour contrast and the contrast with the soil and uniform colours I would say Light Mud over SCC15.  Which would make it late '44.  While at first sight looking "wrong", if you step back it actually works as a disruptive pattern - which were supposed to disguise and confuse, not hide.

WS5VvIG.jpg

 

Thank you so much, I had just about decided on light mud (instead of light stone as ibg would have you believe) over SCC2 now think I'll go SCC15. 

 

For a little more interest, I'd thought on SCC2 for the chassis and under wheel arches to suggest a repaint, or am I in cloud cookoo land?

 

Again the inside of the open door looks a different tone to the SCC15, SCC2?

 

Interesting aside, the disruptive camo pattern is different on both vehicles, I'd assumed they would have been the same with a predetermined pattern, as you had with aeroplanes. 

 

After saying all that, still have no idea why the difficult choice of scheme appeals or how I'll create a hard edge to it.....:hmmm:

 

Thanks again

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Don't know if this helps any but it's my 1/56th scale Rubicon CMP truck in my interpretation of Light Mud over SCC2:

 

CMP23

 

The SCC2 is Mike Starmer's suggested mix of Humbrol 98 and 29, with 72 Khaki Drill doing service as Light Mud. It's weathered with well thinned Humbrol enamel washes.

 

John

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Hi John, nice work on the CMP, particularly like the paint work on the canvas tilt.

 

Could just be the photo but it almost looks green and black, I assumed it would have looked more of a sand and brown colour.

 

Thanks again

Darryl

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3 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

Could just be the photo but it almost looks green and black, I assumed it would have looked more of a sand and brown colour.

17 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

For a little more interest, I'd thought on SCC2 for the chassis and under wheel arches to suggest a repaint, or am I in cloud cookoo land?

 

Again the inside of the open door looks a different tone to the SCC15, SCC2?

With apologies to John, the brown there looks more like SCC1A than SCC2.  Think milk and dark chocolate and you're just about there.  SCC2 being the milk and SCC1A the dark.  The Light Mud is perhaps a little too green.

 

At that time the Otters could be new-build in SCC15 or repainted from SCC2.  In the latter case it is likely that only the visible parts were repainted.  Having said this, a brown door would stand out - but it's next to a black opening ..............  Now that raises the interesting possibility that the worn Light Mud paint on the fenders and elsewhere might reveal SCC2.

 

There is water on the ground and the vehicles look almost freshly washed but still with some visible dust on the darker colour.  I wonder if there has been recent rain and we're just looking at the washed vs unwashed colour for the door?  See that the rear car appears to have the light mud extended onto the bottom front corner of the open door, something seen in other pictures as they seemed to spend a lot of time with the doors open for ventilation.  But read all the way to the bottom.......

 

Here are some more photos to continue the quest.  The first is RAF Regt again, in Yugoslavia and will be Light Mud with SCC2: note the closer contrast.  The second is also RAF, A/C Co in Iraq this time and is also Light Mud and SCC2, noting again the less stark contrast.

PwbaEKQ.jpg

 

MDYNTtK.jpg

 

Now this IS Italy, Army this time.  That's either Light Mud over SCC2 or SCC1A over SCC2.  The contrasts will be about the same in reverse.  Damn monochrome photographs ...........

S7Dz6sZ.jpg

 

I'm wondering if my first photo was in fact mis-captioned where I found it as being Italy.  This one is in Greece, Salonika.  There are other photos from Greece of the same scheme.  I think the lead car here is the 2nd car in the earlier photo.  Now that raises the interesting and confusing possibility that the dark colour is actually SCC1A dark brown.  Based on the premise that the open door shows SCC1A and SCC2, a scheme that was certainly used in Italy.  As Greece was later than Italy these could be cars shipped over from Italy and repainted.  But we could in turn also be looking at another possibility with the lighter colour in fact being the old Light Stone over SCC2, with the door showing Light Mud over SCC2 - the contrasts are about right for that.  I'm not helping much, am I??

T89pYuQ.jpg

 

In that vein, this is how the RAF Regt Museum have their Otter painted - taking the large pinch of salt about museum repaints.  That is pretty much Light Stone and SCC15: too yellow for Light Mud.  Probably painted with current-issue versions of the colours, having said which our current Light Stone is pretty much the same as it was in WW2 (exactly the same, I read somewhere).

J0pjzqh.jpg

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Yet again the cat is thrown at the pigeons! :wacko:

 

Think if all goes to plan i should be safe-ish (with a little artistic licence) and go SCC2 and Light Mud or possibly Light Mud over SCC15 with SCC2 underside...

 

I've been here before..

 

Thanks once more DA for a most thorough answer.

 

After all this hope it all comes together..

 

Darryl 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, maybe not the best of photos. There's no discernible green in the Humbrol 72 but interestingly Mike Starmer's mix for Light Mud contains Humbrol 31 Slate Grey, which is green! 

 

The SCC2 is one of Mike's suggested mixes but could probably do with being lightened a bit for "scale effect". 

 

Apparently SCC2 still exists in BS381 as 499 Service Brown.

 

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=BS 381C&cRef=BS381C 499&metallic2=False&cDescription=Service brown

 

499 is glossy, and changes quite a bit when it's matted down.

 

John

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Thanks John, I always tend to go acrylic these days, even better if I can find a ready mixed colour, however I'll still tend to lighten a touch.

 

Colours change so much depending upon environment, useage weather etc. I tend to go with idea of, as long as looks reasonably appropriate I'm quite happy.

 

Cheers

Darryl 

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Shuffling along, interior pretty much all together. spacer.png

 

Assembled, painted and basic weathering 

 

spacer.png

 

The weakest / most fragile being the seat backs, will need to be particularly careful not to knock or be to rough in handling, 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Even with doors open i can't imagine much being visible once all assembled. 

 

Surprising how little there is to show, considering how long it has taken to get this far. Or could just be me being really slow, however i only tend to get 30-40 mins per day to play.

 

As this is a fairly slow build, being tempted to dig out something Tamiya or similar just to keep things moving along.....

 

I've a Dragon Sherman or two but they don't fulfil the quick turnaround requirements so they might wait till the Otter is done.

 

Next job here is to get the body together to a position where it can be painted. 

 

Thanks to everyone that had taken the time to look in and leave comment, really helps to keep the mojo up.

 

Cheers 

Darryl 

 

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1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

Even with doors open i can't imagine much being visible once all assembled. 

....and that's why I don't do interiors. It's not like a cockpit where everything can be seen. But, that said, you've made a great job of it Darryl.

 

John.

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Looking good Darryl. Glad I'm able to see some photos at last, it's been worth the wait.

This is a bit odd though. I've not commented since I've been at sea, nor posted any wip photos of what I'm working on, because  the pictures aren't showing in the thread and I can't access flikr to upload my own. Because I'm following your Otter build I get an email notification and I can see the photos in the email. 

Roger. 

 

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Hi Darryl,

as the mates comment, it is a pity that almost nothing can be seen later, but the work done is certainly good, and what you see will give a touch of quality to the model ...:popcorn:

Cheers Darryl 👍

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Interior looking good.  Like Bullbasket I don't favour interiors - in fact I avoid them and open-top vehicles like the plague! - but Otters were most commonly seen with the large side doors open and there's nowhere to hide a big empty void.

 

You've got a Bren spare barrel on the left side which would be gun-coloured with wooden handle.  I wonder what the round objects on the floor along the left edge are meant to be?  Too small for 100rd Bren drums, too large for 4" smoke bomb tubes.  Probably meant to be the latter, in which case mid brown.

 

On the subject of Brens, I'm struggling to see any magazine stowage in the kit.  I think the object above and behind the radio is supposed to be a full rack of Bren mags but doesn't look much like one.  Likewise I think the object on the left side behind the door is supposed to be an empty Bren mag rack.  There would possibly be boxes of Bren mags and probably boxes of loose .303 stowed inside.  Panzer Art do Bren mag boxes and wood and steel 303 boxes.  Add On Parts do Boys mag boxes if you plan to mount the Boys rifle.  But again, how much of that would be seen inside  for an outlay of probably £20+?

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