H&S ultra 2 in 1 .... no brainer?

[wombat]

Is the H&S ultra 2 in 1 the no brainer choice for a first proper airbrush? I mostly do 1/72 aircraft (all eras and sizes) with the odd 1/48, and a few 1/20 1/24 F1 cars too. Having started in the 80s and never made the switch I still use enamels, and don’t particularly want to invest in duplicating my paints with specialised brands for airbrushing.

 

thanks in advance for any input.

[Troy Smith]

42 minutes ago, wombat said:

Having started in the 80s and never made the switch I still use enamels, and don’t particularly want to invest in duplicating my paints with specialised brands for airbrushing.

invest in proper thinners, rather than white spirit for thinning.   White spirit is OK for clean up, but a false economy for thinning paint.

 

If enamels are your thing, and you take colour seriously, and are in the UK? (even adding your country to your profile display is useful for thing like this)  I suggest looking into Sovereign Hobbies paint, they do their own thinner, and the paints are some of the best researched available.

There was a video he posted,  which I can't find easily, but this is relevant

On 13/06/2017 at 21:04, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Note I don't particularly recommend white spirits for thinning. It will work, but you still get a bit of smell and drying times are not great. Using the intended naptha based thinner reduces odour to hot-acrylic levels, gets better adhesion than any acrylic ever will and gives drying times approaching those of cellulose thinner - it stays wet long enough to self level the paint film and achieve a silky smooth finish but dries quick enough to be handled shortly after cleaning is finished when applied in multiple coats rather than flooded in a single pass.

 

 

re the airbrush?  really a personal choice,  if you can, go somewhere that sells them and try some out.  different strokes for different folks and all that...

 Again, depends where you are if you have anywhere nearby

 

HTH

[wombat]

Yes uk. For external finishes I use Xtracolor largely out of habit as they seemed to be the brand SAM reviewers used in the 80s/90s and so that’s what I had a stash of when I picked the hobby up again, but I’m aware that sovereign/ colourcoats get good notices on here.  

[nheather]

24 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 

re the airbrush?  really a personal choice,  if you can, go somewhere that sells them and try some out.  different strokes for different folks and all that...

 Again, depends where you are if you have anywhere nearby

 

HTH

Out of interest, have you ever encountered or even aware of somewhere in the UK that sells a variety of models and makes and lets you try them out.

 

I hear this advice, and you cannot argue with the sense of it, just not convinced by the practicality.

 

To the OP, I use Iwata, but in the UK I think that H&S gives you the best price/performance combination.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Troy Smith]

21 minutes ago, nheather said:

Out of interest, have you ever encountered or even aware of somewhere in the UK that sells a variety of models and makes and lets you try them out.

 

I hear this advice, and you cannot argue with the sense of it, just not convinced by the practicality.

Very good question.

 

I know a chap from my club who does airbrush courses, and who does demonstrations at shows.    He does courses here, Jason Lake

https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=195_199

Used to run LSA Models in Hove.

 

IIRC  Paul at  

@little-cars

has done demonstrations?    

 

Be worth seeing if a supplier can allow hand on testing.     Does depend on having somewhere practical to do this,  in your case @nheather  Lancing is do-able from Horsham.

 

HTH

[stever219]

5 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Very good question.

 

I know a chap from my club who does airbrush courses, and who does demonstrations at shows.    He does courses here, Jason Lake

https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=195_199

Used to run LSA Models in Hove.

 

IIRC  Paul at  

@little-cars

has done demonstrations?    

 

Be worth seeing if a supplier can allow hand on testing.     Does depend on having somewhere practical to do this,  in your case @nheather  Lancing is do-able from Horsham.

 

HTH

Little-cars is now modelling-tools.com.  Paul has been very helpful to several of our club members, getting them set up and providing extra help, information and demonstrations as necessary.

[nheather]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Very good question.

 

I know a chap from my club who does airbrush courses, and who does demonstrations at shows.    He does courses here, Jason Lake

https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=195_199

Used to run LSA Models in Hove.

 

IIRC  Paul at  

@little-cars

has done demonstrations?    

 

Be worth seeing if a supplier can allow hand on testing.     Does depend on having somewhere practical to do this,  in your case @nheather  Lancing is do-able from Horsham.

 

HTH

I already have airbrushes thanks.  I have also been in a course at airbrushes.com.  I didn’t get the impression that you can just turn up at airbrushes.com and ask to try out different airbrushes, though they will be more than happy to sell you one that you ask for.  So yes on a course (I paid £200 for a two day course a few years back) you can try different airbrushes.  But also note that they are the Iwata distributor so you will get to try all sorts of Iwatas and Neos but if you are interested in a Badger or H&S then gorget it.

 

Barwells also do courses.  As the Badger distributer you will get to try out a few different Badger airbrushes.

 

Not aware of any place where you can try out Iwatas, H&Ss, Badgers and others side by side to decide which is best for you. 
 

I almost bought an H&S Infinity CR Plus 2in1, I really fancied one, but had no opportunity to try one.  I had tried Iwatas on the course with airbrushes.com so I went with what I knew.

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

 

 

[little-cars]

4 hours ago, wombat said:

Is the H&S ultra 2 in 1 the no brainer choice for a first proper airbrush? I mostly do 1/72 aircraft (all eras and sizes) with the odd 1/48, and a few 1/20 1/24 F1 cars too. Having started in the 80s and never made the switch I still use enamels, and don’t particularly want to invest in duplicating my paints with specialised brands for airbrushing.

 

thanks in advance for any input.

Hi,  It's a good starting point for the modelling you are doing.  

0.2mm should be good for details and small area painting and the 0.4mm nozzle with the 5ml cup good for area coverage, priming and car bodies.  If you need an even finer line you can buy the 0.15mm needle and nozzle and use this with the 0.2mm aircap.  Great set for beginners ( currently £85inc VAT about £70 ex VAT).  The next brush up would be the Evolution Silverline 2in1 ( £150 inc vat, £125 excluding VAT   Silverline 2in1  ), this has screw in paint cups, rather than push in which gives you the option of a tiny paint cup & larger paint cups, a different front end with a needle cap that can be removed if needed & a preset handle that lets you set a maximum paint flow.  I would usually point people to the Ultra in your situation.  

Hope that helps.

 

Paul

[colin]

7 hours ago, wombat said:

Is the H&S ultra 2 in 1 the no brainer choice for a first proper airbrush? I mostly do 1/72 aircraft (all eras and sizes) with the odd 1/48, and a few 1/20 1/24 F1 cars too. Having started in the 80s and never made the switch I still use enamels, and don’t particularly want to invest in duplicating my paints with specialised brands for airbrushing.

 

thanks in advance for any input.

They are nice airbrushes but I could never get on with their triggers, I have Iwata's/Tamiya's but that's just me others probably like H&S over what I like.

I don't think anyone doing our stuff needs to go lower than a .2 needle imho

[little-cars]

33 minutes ago, colin said:

They are nice airbrushes but I could never get on with their triggers, I have Iwata's/Tamiya's but that's just me others probably like H&S over what I like.

I don't think anyone doing our stuff needs to go lower than a .2 needle imho

For reference we have demo brushes at shows for people to try.   We usually suggest 0.2mm as the smallest nozzle size to new users the 0.15mm can be added at a later date if needed. 

 

[BlueNosers352nd]

I have the H&S Silverline 2-in-1 version that I got a year or two ago, but never really played with it much until this weekend............well because I just haven't been interested in models lately or much of anything for that matter.   Any who the only thing I think I would like is the quick pull back option (lack of the correct terminology) to clear clogs.......like you see on the H&S Infinity CR 2 model.  Had some issues playing with it this weekend........but maybe I need to add some liquitex flow product to the mix.  I like having it on my Iwata HP-BCS.......but that has other issues so I haven't been using it.  But then again, jumping from the Ultra to Ininity is a whole lot more coin.

 

Going from a siphon feed to a gravity feed does make it harder to clean.  Siphon feed removeable cups were so much easier to clean.

[little-cars]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:25 PM, BlueNosers352nd said:

I have the H&S Silverline 2-in-1 version that I got a year or two ago, but never really played with it much until this weekend............well because I just haven't been interested in models lately or much of anything for that matter.   Any who the only thing I think I would like is the quick pull back option (lack of the correct terminology) to clear clogs.......like you see on the H&S Infinity CR 2 model.  Had some issues playing with it this weekend........but maybe I need to add some liquitex flow product to the mix.  I like having it on my Iwata HP-BCS.......but that has other issues so I haven't been using it.  But then again, jumping from the Ultra to Ininity is a whole lot more coin.

 

Going from a siphon feed to a gravity feed does make it harder to clean.  Siphon feed removeable cups were so much easier to clean.

H&S have removable cups which makes deep cleaning a lot simpler.  Personally I don't miss the 'quick pull back' that is on some Iwatas, the back handle just unscrews in a couple of seconds.  

[BlueNosers352nd]

2 hours ago, little-cars said:

H&S have removable cups which makes deep cleaning a lot simpler.  Personally I don't miss the 'quick pull back' that is on some Iwatas, the back handle just unscrews in a couple of seconds.  

To each their own on the quick pull back thingie.  The other thing I miss from the Iwata (or even the old clunky Paasches......loved the H though) I had was the ability to back feed air in then by holding your finger over the nozzle.   Made mixing paint and cleaning easier.  But I've only used the H&S Silverline brush a few times, so maybe I'm missing something on the hand over the nozzle back feed thing.

 

I do like the ability to preset the stop to control how far back you go.  Once my skills/touch becomes better after a while of using it I probably can max out the stop and kinda get the same effect as the pull back thingie.

[bmwh548]

There's a cap being sold especially for the "back feed", I think it was designed for the Ammo brushes, but it should fit H&S too if you really need it. By accident I found a rubber cap from something I tore up a million years ago that does exactly that on my Ultra. Used a few times, but to be honest I kinda gave up on that method when I chose the Ultra as my workhorse.

[nheather]

On 11/20/2019 at 5:53 PM, bmwh548 said:

There's a cap being sold especially for the "back feed", I think it was designed for the Ammo brushes, but it should fit H&S too if you really need it. By accident I found a rubber cap from something I tore up a million years ago that does exactly that on my Ultra. Used a few times, but to be honest I kinda gave up on that method when I chose the Ultra as my workhorse.

There was a kickstarter for customised H&S done against Cult of Paint requirements and sold through Element Games that have a cap that allows you to blow back air into the brush.  They also have a redesigned trigger finger pad.

 

Also, Barwell sell rubber protective caps, primarily aimed at their badger range but will work for most airbrushes. Designed to protect the airbrush head when not in use but also serves as a blowback aid.

 

https://barwellbodyworks-shop.com/gb/krome-parts/27-protective-cap-rubber-cap.html?search_query=Protective+cap&results=3

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

[Dandie Dinmont]

I recently bought a H&S Evolution Silverline 2 in 1. I’m a complete airbrush newbie but so far have found it problem free using a variety of different paints (Humbrol, Xtracrylic, Tamiya and Vallejo, all acrylic) and the 0.2 mm setup. I’ve also found it very easy to disassemble and clean. After a few sessions I invested the princely sum of 40 pence in the cap which allows you to flush back into the paint cup. As I understand it, one of the uses for this cap is to allow you to flush back between colour changes before doing a full strip down at the end of the session. If you’ve any questions about the silverline, I’d be happy to answer them.

 

Craig. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Dandie Dinmont
Forgot Tamiya, clarified I was using acrylics.

[BlueNosers352nd]

3 hours ago, Dandie Dinmont said:

I recently bought a H&S Evolution Silverline 2 in 1. I’m a complete airbrush newbie but so far have found it problem free using a variety of different paints (Humbrol, Xtracrylic and Vallejo) and the 0.2 mm setup. I’ve also found it very easy to disassemble and clean. After a few sessions I invested the princely sum of 40 pence in the cap which allows you to flush back into the paint cup. As I understand it, one of the uses for this cap is to allow you to flush back between colour changes before doing a full strip down at the end of the session. If you’ve any questions about the silverline, I’d be happy to answer them.

 

Craig. 

Which cap did you end up getting?

[ToonarmY]

Im about to buy my first airbrush. 

 

Is there a big difference between:

 

The evolution 2 in 1

 

The evolution silverline

 

Ultra 2 in 1

[Dandie Dinmont]

13 minutes ago, BlueNosers352nd said:

Which cap did you end up getting?

This one:

 

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Nozzle-Cover.html#SID=1391

 

It seems to have gone up in price since I bought it, it's 49p now.

[wombat]

Can someone explain the “blowback” thing and why it’s good?

[bmwh548]

It's a matter of preference. I used it for a long time and still use it sometimes on my Chinese airbrushes, I tried it on the Ultra but only in the beginning.

Basically you cover up the front of the airbrush (typically with your finger, but on airbrushes like the Ultra you would need a "cap" because of the front end design) forcing air to take the path of least resistance (which means it will travel backwards into the nozzle towards the paint cup). This forces everything in it's path to "stir up" so if you added thinner and paint in the cup individually the air would force the two to mix up homogeneously eliminating the need to do an external mix.

Drawbacks?

It can cause a mess if the air pressure is too high as paint can splatter out of the cup. 

It can push paint beyond the needle seal into the trigger area.

It can dislodge old paint from inside the nozzle and/or front section of the airbrush and get it into the mix.

It can "blow off" the paint cup on the Ultra if it's not properly inserted (as it doesn't have a thread, it's just a push fit).

Advantages?

It makes the mixing process a lot faster (as long as you use compatible paint-thinner).

It helps clean up (because of the "dislodging" mentioned above) minimizing the need to take the whole front end apart.

It can actually help during painting when poor paint is used (it pushes the small paint "grains" backwards clearing up the nozzle momentarily), but then again, for optimum results you really should be either filtering poor paint or just getting a new bottle.

 

I'm sure there's more, but these are the first to come to mind