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Gimme Shelter

New released Mach 2 1/72 scale VC10 - leading wing edges

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Hi

 

Having just dug deep at the Nationals, I returned with the freshly released Mach 2 BOAC boxed 1/72 scale VC10. I intend to produce this as a British Airways Negus & Negus bird.

 

Could anyone confirm what alterations I need make to the leading wing edges as I was verbally told that the kits wings were wrong, and possibly the wing roots.

 

Yep, I am already aware of all the talk about the cockpit shape and have taken good advice from my fellow team mates at IPMS Farnborough about how to correct the front end, but the leading wing edges remain a mystery.

 

Any help will be appreciated, and thanks in advance.

 

John 

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Could you put a picture of the wing from above. Did BA use Standard VC10's I might be wrong but I thought they were super VC10's

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On 11/16/2019 at 1:25 AM, kev67 said:

Did BA use Standard VC10's I might be wrong but I thought they were super VC10's

There was 1 Series 1101 that did get to wear the Negus & Negus scheme: G-ARVM.

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Vickers-VC10-Srs1101/51690/L

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:25 PM, kev67 said:

Could you put a picture of the wing from above. Did BA use Standard VC10's I might be wrong but I thought they were super VC10's

BOAC/BA used a mix of Standard (V.1101, G-ARVA -‘VC and G-ARVE-‘VM) and Super (V.1151, G-ASGA-‘GR).  The Standards retained the original wing without inboard leading edge extension and associated extended stub wing whilst the Supers all had extended inboard leading edges and associated extended stub wings.  IIRC the stub wings were built integral with the centre fuselage sections and the wings were then attached to these (I hope @bzn20 can confirm or correct this for me).

Edited by stever219
Trypo

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I haven't seen the kit so I don't know what its wings look like but the book "Silent Swift Superb: The Story of the Vickers VC-10" by Scott Henderson has a photo of Victor Mike in a hybrid BOAC/Negus livery which shows a straight leading edge with a large fence inboard and a small full-chord fence outboard. From my limited knowledge that seems to have been the normal wing layout for BOAC/BA Standard VC-10s throughout their lives.

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27 minutes ago, Skodadriver said:

 "Silent Swift Superb: The Story of the Vickers VC-10"

I'm sorry, but that did make me chuckle as the VC-10 had to be one of the greatest convertors of avgas to noise, known to man.

 

Tommo.

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12 minutes ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

I'm sorry, but that did make me chuckle as the VC-10 had to be one of the greatest convertors of avgas to noise, known to man.

 

Tommo.

Externally maybe but I believe it was luxuriously quiet inside. I’m only sorry I never had the chance to fly on one.

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3 hours ago, Scott Garard said:

Did BA use Standard VC10's

They used a few in hybrid BOAC and BA titles , RVG was one of them but that went to Gulf Air mid 74 as A4O-VG . Only three Standards were painted in full BA colours RVF,RVJ and RVM . RVF and RVJ spent next to no time in them as RVJ was leased out to Gulf Air (that was returned to Brize 1982 ish and scrapped over by the fire dump in 93 ish ) RVF was leased to the Government of UAE and ended up in a German Museum .

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2 hours ago, stever219 said:

BOAC/BA used a mix of Standard (V.1101, G-ARVA -‘VC and G-ARVE-‘VM) and Super (V.1151, G-ASGA-‘GR).  The Standards retained the original wing without inboard leading edge extension and associated extended stub wing whilst the Supers all had extended inboard leading edges and associated extended stub wings.

That's right stever219 . That's my entry number at Halton !

2 hours ago, stever219 said:

IIRC the stub wings were built integral with the centre fuselage sections and the wings were then attached to these (I hope @bzn20 can confirm or correct this for me).

The stubs are part of the rear fuselage . 2 beams run through the fuselage and inside the stub wings and fitted to the 2 Spectacle frames ,front and rear engine mounting frames on both sides . Made from machined billet and sit over the two Conways . Obviously big fuel feed pipes to the engines and electrical harnesses are running through the stub wing too . I've got a great Flight mag. VC10 cutaway drawing , I can send you that if you're interested .

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:13 PM, Gimme Shelter said:

Could anyone confirm what alterations I need make to the leading wing edges as I was verbally told that the kits wings were wrong, and possibly the wing roots

Have a look at the  VC10 walkround with RVM post #2 and go down a bit ,great shot from wing tip to wing root and fuse farings

I've also got a cutaway of a K2 which is a former BOAC VC10 and shows the complete plane. Those leading edges are the same . I can email that to you plus anything else you might need fridge pack fairing etc. photo . Anything else .

I imagine you'll have to cut all the inbd leading edge off slats off inline with the slat lines No1 and No 2 slat and inboard fridge pack fairing (with the small intake) , reduce the chord so when you refit the cut off leading edge they'll be inline with the outer wing a straight line . The forward wing root join will have to tidied as it will be too far forward of the relocated leading edge .

Make a note where the inboard Fence starts , a fixed triangular fairing between the fridge pack and slat No1 . You can see the front of the fence is slightly bent outbd as the  fence is fitted further inbd than the RAF's C.1K /Super Tens and has to locate on that fixed portion of leading edge . It also sits over the top of first oval panel (forward outboard corner fuel tank access panel)

 

Hope this is helpful , any confusion ,just ask or need more photos ,drawings sent by email. I have something like 2000 photos of just about every area and all 54 built ,around another 600 .

 

 

 

 

v%2020.jpg

 

Edited by bzn20

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20 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

Externally maybe but I believe it was luxuriously quiet inside. I’m only sorry I never had the chance to fly on one.

I had a couple of VC-10 flights way back in the early '70s and I have no recall of it being any quieter than its contemporaries. One aircraft that was definitely  quieter was the Bristol Britannia, now that was the epitome of  being luxuriously quiet.  However, a transatlantic flight was considerably longer in the venerable Brit.

 

I grew up near RAF Waddington and one definitely knew when there was a visiting VC-10 at Waddo.

 

Tommo.

 

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No visiting Concordes then?  Or Coronado's?  

 

About thirty years ago I took my six or seven year-old son to an open day at Warton, which invcluded a display by a 146.   At the end of the day he wanted to know why people made so much fuss about airliner noise.

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22 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

I'm sorry, but that did make me chuckle as the VC-10 had to be one of the greatest convertors of avgas to noise, known to man.

 

Tommo.

They would be particularly noisy if using Avgas, I'd have been sacked, big time 😮.  Conway engines burning  Avtur. 2 years at Brize in the early 80's as OC POL (Petrol Oils and Lubricants). 😁

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1 hour ago, elanman said:

They would be particularly noisy if using Avgas, I'd have been sacked, big time 😮.  Conway engines burning  Avtur. 2 years at Brize in the early 80's as OC POL (Petrol Oils and Lubricants). 😁

Ye of little humour. 😉

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

No visiting Concordes then?  Or Coronado's?  

 

About thirty years ago I took my six or seven year-old son to an open day at Warton, which invcluded a display by a 146.   At the end of the day he wanted to know why people made so much fuss about airliner noise.

 

Not to my knowledge. However, the noisest was when Waddo got runway ice and snow clearer out.

 

The VC-10 was a noisy machine and came from time were there will little consideration to such matters, Concorde falls into the same bracket. Not a criticism just the way it was back then.

 

I don't think the 146 is good comparison, as it was in part designed to operate in and out of city airports in a more noise conscious world.

 

Tommo.

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 4:54 PM, The Tomohawk Kid said:

Avgas

The Britannia was refuelled with Avtur . Turboprop ,Turbojet, Turbofan  all the same fuel just used it  in different ways to propel  .

 

Edited by bzn20
Brain freeze !

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2 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

the 146

That was the first jet allowed under some low Californian noise regs , think it was John Wayne Airport ,the rest o f the world fell in love with it and followed . It was a bit late ( 4-5 years ) and was dead due to the normal Govt funding attitudes .Eventually it was woken up ( Wedgewood Benn bless him )and one of the best ever British airliner in terms of sales . The early one would give you an allergy !

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Thank you all very kindly for the invaluable input and advice you have provided. I will set up a WIP once the kit goes into production and post a few close up pictures in this thread of the wing leading edge and fuselage wing roots.

 

The only photo I have to share today is one I took on Saturday. I have strapped the 2 fuselage halves together with rubber bands and strapped them up with wooden splints. Although the fuselage halves dry fitted well (and were the same length and thickness, but without male & female locator pins), a colleague at IPMS Farnborough advised that it would be easier for me to assemble if the 2 halves spent some time on the window sill in the sun.

 

Here it is

 

WhatsApp Image 2019-11-17 at 1.37.52 PM (2)

 

 

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At least the windows look like they line up unlike the Comet Didier done last year

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my kit was delivered today, looking forward to following this before attempting it myself to see what I can learn.

regards

neil

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On 11/16/2019 at 4:30 PM, The Tomohawk Kid said:

I'm sorry, but that did make me chuckle as the VC-10 had to be one of the greatest convertors of avgas to noise, known to man.

 

Tommo.

Next to a sea harrier ....still both iconic gas turbine noises though🇬🇧👍🤦‍♂️

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On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 3:06 PM, Scott Garard said:

There was 1 Series 1101 that did get to wear the Negus & Negus scheme: G-ARVM.

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Vickers-VC10-Srs1101/51690/L

Yes, the one that is at Brooklands, but only the body survives sadly

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Here are the photos of the dry fitted wing halves showing the leading edge of the wing that refers back to my original question, If correct, I need to sand these down and off so that the wings leading edge is perfectly straight (Ignore the plastic swarf here)

 

20191120_094955

 

20191120_094959

 

 

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To be honest depending on what VC10 you are doing the wing shape looks OK, but depends on what VC10 you depict and whether it had the wing chord extension or not

https://www.vc10.net/Data/vickers_vc10_type_designations.html

If you are doing 1101 G-ARVM I believe this did not have the wing chord extension, but my experience with the VC10 is with the 1103 (ex BUA), hopefully bzn20 can clarify this, but again you need to know which one you are planning to build

Also 1101 had a full chord outboard wing fences fitted

https://www.vc10.net/Technical/wing_shapes.html

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2 hours ago, kev67 said:

To be honest depending on what VC10 you are doing the wing shape looks OK, but depends on what VC10 you depict and whether it had the wing chord extension or not

https://www.vc10.net/Data/vickers_vc10_type_designations.html

If you are doing 1101 G-ARVM I believe this did not have the wing chord extension, but my experience with the VC10 is with the 1103 (ex BUA), hopefully bzn20 can clarify this, but again you need to know which one you are planning to build

Also 1101 had a full chord outboard wing fences fitted

https://www.vc10.net/Technical/wing_shapes.html

Hello Kev

 

Thanks for your help and continued input here - I guess I need to model G-ARVF in the BA Negus 7 Negus livery. If you have any photos I could work from, please could you PM them over - with much gratitude - John

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