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cherisy

100 group Liberator and Fortress interior colours

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Hi

Has anyone and idea of what the interior colours were on the 100 group B24s and B17s were? I  know the American night leaflet b17s had theirs painted black ( secret sqns of the 8th) would the RAF followed suit bearing in mind all the other mods that were carried out prior to service. Streetlys book makes no mention.

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Interesting question. Weren't the 100 Group aircraft drawn from used USAAF stock and modified? (It's a long time since I last read Streetly for a 1/48 B-24 build so I'm undoubted wrong in that statement)

 

So I'm thinking that the effort to repaint the interior wouldn't be high on the agenda to get the aircraft into RAF service, also the RAF didn't paint the bulk of the interiors of their Main Force aircraft so why do the 100 Group ones? Having been involved with painting a few real aircraft I know the interior is one of the worst to repaint without a major strip out or time consuming masking.

 

If I finally get to build a B-17G from 100 Group I would stick with the factory interior colours, cockpit various shades of green and the rear compartments in shades of aluminium with some frames and stringers in Zinc Chromate to add a bit of interest, most is pretty invisible anyway with everything closed up.

 

There's probably no definitive answer so your choice.

 

Dave

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2 hours ago, cherisy said:

would the RAF followed suit bearing in mind all the other mods that were carried out prior to service. Streetlys book makes no mention.

Which Streetly book?  There are two,  Confound and Destroy,  and Aircraft of 100 Group, a Modellers guide.

 

From the photos in the latter book, the insides were not repainted. (from memory, book not too hand)

Areas that got worked on may have been touched up, but most of the internal changes are going to be pretty hidden on a model unless you are doing a cutaway,  or have one of those clear fuselage B-17's kist!

 

there is a .rar file of a .pdf of the Aircraft of 100 Group book here, if you don't already have it.

https://dfiles.eu/files/hbqunyag2

 

The internal colors of US types did vary depending on when and where they were built,  that is a whole project itself untangling that!

 

HTH

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I can't speak for what happened during the war and in 100 Group in particular but I have worked in aircraft maintenance and modification pretty much all of my working life (34 years and counting), and want to make people understand just how difficult it is to repaint an aircraft interior properly.

 

You wouldn't want the paint affecting anything electrical, electronic, hydraulic, pitot-static and those systems involving gases so you'd want to remove those and associated wiring looms (in order to prevent paint damage to their insulation).  Likewise, any hydraulic pipes or control runs (the latter to prevent clogging of bearings).  All of this is time consuming and brings with it a whole host of disturbed systems functional checks which are also very time consuming. 

 

So you can see it's not something to do unless you really, really have to.  Given there was an operational imperative to get these aircraft modified and into service I would suggest that time was of the essence and the delays caused by doing this may not be something the user community would accept.

 

Even in wartime with around the clock working and unlimited manpower, there's only so many people you can get into a space to do a job of work so it wouldn't really happen very much quicker than in peacetime.

 

Therefore, I think it likely they would have just pinted where they needed to, touch ups and the like, remember too, the interior areas of these aircraft wouldn't be open when flying operationally so what would the point be of repainting them?

 

I have worked on some aircraft where a repaint has been done without removing anything, frankly it's a bloody gash job and does cause maintenance problems downstream so I'm not saying it isn't done but it's not a proper (and in my opinion airworthy) job.  Having said that, exergencies of war and expediency they may have been willing to accept this course of action.

 

On balance though, I would say it's highly unlikely they would have been repainted.

 

Just my two penneth worth.

Edited by Wez
speelung

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2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Which Streetly book?  There are two,  Confound and Destroy,  and Aircraft of 100 Group, a Modellers guide.

 

From the photos in the latter book, the insides were not repainted. (from memory, book not too hand)

Areas that got worked on may have been touched up, but most of the internal changes are going to be pretty hidden on a model unless you are doing a cutaway,  or have one of those clear fuselage B-17's kist!

 

there is a .rar file of a .pdf of the Aircraft of 100 Group book here, if you don't already have it.

https://dfiles.eu/files/hbqunyag2

 

The internal colors of US types did vary depending on when and where they were built,  that is a whole project itself untangling that!

 

HTH

Sorry Troy I forgot there were 2 and have both. I know the photos you refer to but assumed that as they were taken at the trials unit that the operational interior may have been different. But good point . 

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2 hours ago, Wez said:

I can't speak for what happened during the war and in 100 Group in particular but I have worked in aircraft maintenance and modification pretty much all of my working life (34 years and counting), and want to make people understand just how difficult it is to repaint an aircraft interior properly.

 

You wouldn't want the paint affecting anything electrical, electronic, hydraulic, pitot-static and those systems involving gases so you'd want to remove those and associated wiring looms (in order to prevent paint damage to their insulation).  Likewise, any hydraulic pipes or control runs (the latter to prevent clogging of bearings).  All of this is time consuming and brings with it a whole host of disturbed systems functional checks which are also very time consuming. 

 

So you can see it's not something to do unless you really, really have to.  Given there was an operational imperative to get these aircraft modified and into service I would suggest that time was of the essence and the delays caused by doing this may not be something the user community would accept.

 

Even in wartime with around the clock working and unlimited manpower, there's only so many people you can get into a space to do a job of work so it wouldn't really happen very much quicker than in peacetime.

 

Therefore, I think it likely they would have just pinted where they needed to, touch ups and the like, remember too, the interior areas of these aircraft wouldn't be open when flying operationally so what would the point be of repainting them?

 

I have worked on some aircraft where a repaint has been done without removing anything, frankly it's a bloody gash job and does cause maintenance problems downstream so I'm not saying it isn't done but it's not a proper (and in my opinion airworthy) job.  Having said that, exergencies of war and expediency they may have been willing to accept this course of action.

 

On balance though, I would say it's highly unlikely they would have been repainted.

 

Just my two penneth worth.

Thanks Wez like you say theres no reason to think anything was any different  back then. I know the US did some retouching with the NL sqns though. It was the waist areas of both that were of interest as both were open operationally with the waist (Beam) guns

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