V Force Group Build - 36 members so far, any more?

[Adam Poultney]

Added info for 707 and Sperrin kits

[Adam Poultney]

Some recently released and upcoming aftermarket bits that anyone on this group build might find useful:

 

1:72 decal sheet, white, camouflage and wrap around camouflage

 

1:72 white vulcan decals including B1, B1a and b2

 

1:72 camouflaged vulcan decals including B2 and k2

 

1:144 white Vulcan decals including B1, B1a and B2

 

1:144 camouflaged vulcan decals including B2 and K2

 

 

1:144 camouflage masks (upper surfaces)

 

1:144 Camouflage masks (wrap around)

 

1:72 camouflage masks (upper surfaces)

 

1:72 camouflage masks (wrap around)

 

Canopy masks (Trumpeter kit, 1:144)

[Ruttman]

I’m in!
I’ll build the upcoming Airfix Vulcan at some point after Christmas

[Adam Poultney]

Just now, Ruttman said:

I’m in!
I’ll build the upcoming Airfix Vulcan at some point after Christmas

Welcome aboard

[Anatol Pigwa]

While this GB is not up my alley, I would like to notify, in the spirit of sportsmanship, @Enzo Matrix that the 30 interested threshold has been reached and the GB proposal should be added to the bunfight.

[The_Lancaster]

I'm in!!
Got the airfix Valiant and Victor, not to mention a new Vulcan on pre-order

 

Which one to do though... 🤔

 

It's gotta be Airfix's new Victor B.2!

 

Sam

[Adam Poultney]

10 minutes ago, The_Lancaster said:

I'm in!!
Got the airfix Valiant and Victor, not to mention a new Vulcan on pre-order

 

Which one to do though... 🤔

 

It's gotta be Airfix's new Victor B.2!

 

Sam

Welcome aboard! 

 

Be careful with the flaps on the Victor, the instructions are wrong for the raised flaps option, you'll need to find the correct things to do elsewhere.

Other than that a great kit! 

[Enzo the Magnificent]

And it's in the bunfight!  

[Adam Poultney]

6 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

And it's in the bunfight!  

 Might hurt my wallet if this goes ahead, I have toooo many planned builds..... Hopefully if it does there will be plenty of people getting the new tool Vulcan who will join  

[Stefan Buysse]

Hi,

 

I'd love to participate.

While I find all three main V-bomber types fascinating, I'll go with my favorite for this GB...the HP Victor.

To make sure I finnish the build, I'll start with something sensible: a GWH kit in 1/144.

After that, anything is possible.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

 

[Adam Poultney]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Buysse said:

Hi,

 

I'd love to participate.

While I find all three main V-bomber types fascinating, I'll go with my favorite for this GB...the HP Victor.

To make sure I finnish the build, I'll start with something sensible: a GWH kit in 1/144.

After that, anything is possible.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

 

Welcome aboard! The GWH Victor looks like a nice enough kit, although the K2 needs the wingtips reducing, and the B2 is in a configuration that I don't think ever was really used (B.Mk.2R without blue steel). Should be a good build regardless, looking forward to seeing it.

 

[Stefan Buysse]

12 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Welcome aboard! The GWH Victor looks like a nice enough kit, although the K2 needs the wingtips reducing, and the B2 is in a configuration that I don't think ever was really used (B.Mk.2R without blue steel). Should be a good build regardless, looking forward to seeing it.

 

Thanks, Adam.

 

I had been wondering a bit about that B2 myself. Could it be that the B.Mk.2R's did not always carry the Blue Steel missile for routine training flights and that they had a standard bombbay door for those flights?

Is part A 14 in that kit the extra airscoop that Blue steel Victors had under the fuselage? That is under the starboard side in the kit. I also have a picture of a Blue Steel Victor with a different style of extra airscoop under the port side.

Could it be that there were different configurations of Blue Steel Victors? Some with the airscoop left of the centerline and some with the airscoop right of the centerline. 

I see in the GWH instructions that part A14 is also to be installed in the GWH K.2.

Did the K.2's keep the Blue Steel airscoop?

    

Cheers, Stefan.

[JohnT]

I’ve got at least one of each to do. Can I tag along and decide what goes in the pot later?  Prob the Victor

[Adam Poultney]

36 minutes ago, Stefan Buysse said:

Thanks, Adam.

 

I had been wondering a bit about that B2 myself. Could it be that the B.Mk.2R's did not always carry the Blue Steel missile for routine training flights and that they had a standard bombbay door for those flights?

Is part A 14 in that kit the extra airscoop that Blue steel Victors had under the fuselage? That is under the starboard side in the kit. I also have a picture of a Blue Steel Victor with a different style of extra airscoop under the port side.

Could it be that there were different configurations of Blue Steel Victors? Some with the airscoop left of the centerline and some with the airscoop right of the centerline. 

I see in the GWH instructions that part A14 is also to be installed in the GWH K.2.

Did the K.2's keep the Blue Steel airscoop?

    

Cheers, Stefan.

I believe the refit to standard bomb bay doors was not a simple one, and they could not easily be swapped out (if they could the evidence would common be in photos), I think there was a blanking plate that could be put in or something that would cover the opening if the Victor was to fly without the missile. 

All the photos of a Victor B2 with standard bomb bay doors I've seen, which aren't of the early B.Mk.2 pre blue steel, are actually SR2s. There are some differences on the underwing fuel tanks (which a handful of them didn't have his a while it seems) and other minor things but I think you could make a relatively accurate SR2 from the GWH kit with very little effort, assuming you can find the appropriate decals.

 

 

There is a small intake on the port side under the wing of all Victor Mk2s. 

Just grabbed one of my Victor instruction booklets (this is a Blue Steel Victor instruction booklet which I added a bunch of minor corrections to). 

Step 110 and step 111 are the Blue Steel air scoop, this was only on Blue Steel Victors and no other variant. The one added in step 112 is on all Victor Mk.2s (so that includes K2s). I think the step 112 air scoop is what GWH part A14 is, but I can't be sure as the GWH Victor is one of the few modern V Bomber kits I don't have. 

2 minutes ago, JohnT said:

I’ve got at least one of each to do. Can I tag along and decide what goes in the pot later?  Prob the Victor

Of course, welcome aboard. I suggest doing all three, but I'll put down the Victor for now.

Which kits do you have?

[Stefan Buysse]

Thanks, Adam.

 

That clears up a lot. I don't have one of those new Airfix 1/72 scale Victors yet.

Step 112 is indeed part A 14 in the GWH kit.

Step 110/111 is not in the GWH B2 kit.

So, the GWH B2 is indeed in a configuration that we aren't sure if it was ever around.

I like your suggestion of turning it into an SR.2. I should be able to find the decals: 543 Sqn is in my 1/144 scale aftermarket decals for Valiants.

 

I had been thinking of making a Blue Steel Victor out of the GWH B.2 and the Pit Road Blue Steel Vulcan kit (SN-22).  

Apart from the fact that the bomb bay doors aren't a drop-fit, I'd have to come up with a scoop like in step 110/111.

I might still give it a shot some day, SN-22 gives us a standard bomb bay doors in addition to the Blue Steel parts, so the Vulcan wouldn't be a total loss after donating its Blue Steel doors to the Victor.

 

Cheers, Stefan. 

[Adam Poultney]

16 minutes ago, Stefan Buysse said:

Thanks, Adam.

 

That clears up a lot. I don't have one of those new Airfix 1/72 scale Victors yet.

Step 112 is indeed part A 14 in the GWH kit.

Step 110/111 is not in the GWH B2 kit.

So, the GWH B2 is indeed in a configuration that we aren't sure if it was ever around.

I like your suggestion of turning it into an SR.2. I should be able to find the decals: 543 Sqn is in my 1/144 scale aftermarket decals for Valiants.

 

I had been thinking of making a Blue Steel Victor out of the GWH B.2 and the Pit Road Blue Steel Vulcan kit (SN-22).  

Apart from the fact that the bomb bay doors aren't a drop-fit, I'd have to come up with a scoop like in step 110/111.

I might still give it a shot some day, SN-22 gives us a standard bomb bay doors in addition to the Blue Steel parts, so the Vulcan wouldn't be a total loss after donating its Blue Steel doors to the Victor.

 

Cheers, Stefan. 

Given that they have XM714 in a scheme that she definitely never wore (B.Mk.2R bomber in camo with underwing fuel tanks), having crashed in 1963 as an early B.Mk.2 in white, and the GWH vulcan has some schemes that don't quite fit the kit (engine types on black buck aircraft), I would take GWH/Pit Road research with a pinch of salt and always go off of reference material. 

SR2 is my plan if I get the kit and can find the correct decals.

 

The Blue Steel idea is one I was thinking about, but instead of the Pit Road Vulcan blue steel which isn't that great, the fins are way oversized, I'd use a Trumpeter one (which has the wrong number of fins but I already made the missing one from plastic card), and like the pit road Vulcan the Trumpeter one has both bomb bay doors. But I wouldn't try fitting Vulcan parts to a Victor, the curvature will never match. Best to just cut the blue steel recess out of the Victor kit's bomb bay. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Adam Poultney

[JohnT]

11 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

 

Of course, welcome aboard. I suggest doing all three, but I'll put down the Victor for now.

Which kits do you have?

Er, still untouched

2 Matchbox Victors with B 2 conversion and Flightpath B1 conversion sets from way back and now rather superseded by the

2 Airfix Victors

2 Airfix Vulcans and a Flightpath B1 conversion set

A 1/48 Icelandic Models Vulcan and

1 part started Airfix Valiant
 

Any suggestions for the 2 older Victors. I wondered about conversions which if messed up I’d feel I’d not lost anything
 

I really need to get “in” more 

 

 

[Adam Poultney]

On 20/06/2020 at 09:42, JohnT said:

Er, still untouched

2 Matchbox Victors with B 2 conversion and Flightpath B1 conversion sets from way back and now rather superseded by the

2 Airfix Victors

2 Airfix Vulcans and a Flightpath B1 conversion set

A 1/48 Icelandic Models Vulcan and

1 part started Airfix Valiant
 

Any suggestions for the 2 older Victors. I wondered about conversions which if messed up I’d feel I’d not lost anything
 

I really need to get “in” more 

 

 

The old matchbox victors are pretty bad, however you build them aftermarket should be used. They look best in camo as that hides the horrendous nose shape, and also you'd need to add the middle canopy panel missing on the kit. Always good to see a Victor B1 conversion, but honestly I feel the poor nose shape often lets those down despite the amazing effort and quality of the rest of the build on the ones based on the matchbox kit. I'm yet to see a camouflaged Victor B1 (or K1) from a matchbox kit though, so I think that may look better. I wonder if it would be possible to clone part of the nose from the Airfix kit to correct a matchbox kit's nose, at the cost of an interior..... Might be worth considering on a B1 since there is currently no conversion for the Airfix kit.... 

[JohnT]

10 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:Might be worth considering on a B1 since there is currently no conversion for the Airfix kit.... 

Adam

being bonkers busy I have not had an Airfix kit and David Parkins Flightpath B1 conversion set out to see if the Matchbox/ Revell resin would fit or could be adjusted and made to fit the newer Airfix kit. Anyone tried it yet??

 

[DJPFlightpath]

1 hour ago, JohnT said:

Adam

being bonkers busy I have not had an Airfix kit and David Parkins Flightpath B1 conversion set out to see if the Matchbox/ Revell resin would fit or could be adjusted and made to fit the newer Airfix kit. Anyone tried it yet??

 

Hi Adam -

 

I think it would be very difficult, as the fitting method at the wing root is very different in almost every respect. I have thought of doing a B1 set tailored to the Airfix kit but was biding my time - half hoping Airfix produce a full B1 kit!

 

Regards

 

David Parkins

Flightpath

[JohnT]

49 minutes ago, djparkins said:

Hi Adam -

 

I think it would be very difficult, as the fitting method at the wing root is very different in almost every respect. I have thought of doing a B1 set tailored to the Airfix kit but was biding my time - half hoping Airfix produce a full B1 kit!

 

Regards

 

David Parkins

Flightpath

Go for it David as I have two Airfix kits one of which was a very tentative B1 conversion so I am half way there and it’s one sale anyway 

 

I can then pass on those Matchbox things 

[Adam Poultney]

3 hours ago, djparkins said:

Hi Adam -

 

I think it would be very difficult, as the fitting method at the wing root is very different in almost every respect. I have thought of doing a B1 set tailored to the Airfix kit but was biding my time - half hoping Airfix produce a full B1 kit!

 

Regards

 

David Parkins

Flightpath

I very much doubt Airfix would release another Victor... I think they should have done the B1 to begin with given how much more variety there is in Mk1 Victors... 

 

I'd certainly pick up a Victor B1 conversion for the Airfix kit (and a new Vulcan b1 conversion for the new tool Airfix kit)

[Stefan Buysse]

Hi,

 

I've run into a HP Victor conundrum.

Maybe one of the experts here can help?🙂

Mikromir's 1/144 kit has a decal option for XH592 of No 232 OCU.

There is a whole page (p.111) of ilustrations of this one in the On Target special "V-Bombers".

But in International Air Power Review Vol.25 there is a list of Victor B1's that became tankers, but XH592 is not on it.

IAPR says  about the interim two-pointers: "Rather than upset the existing conversion programme, six different aircraft (XH615, XH620, XH646-648, XH667) were chosen for the interim modification."

And IAPR says about the three-point tankers: "In addition to the first trials aircraft (XA918), ten B.Mk 1's were converted (XA926-928, XA930, XA932, XA936-939, XA941). Mk 1A conversions numbered 14 (XH587-591, XH614, XH616, XH618, XH619, XH621, XH645, XH649-615)."

I'm pretty sure that that last "615" is a IAPR typo and should be "651".   

Notwithstanding the typo, this seems like a reliable and comprehnsive list and XH592 is not on it.

I wonder where the mistake lies. Would there have been more than 14 B.Mk 1's converted? Is the list mistaken?

Maybe XH592 went to the OCU as a pilot trainer and not as a real tanker? The illustration in the On Target Special does have wingtip refueling pods. Maybe it's just an illustration? On Target's reference is "Warpaint Series No36". I'm not familiar with the Warpaint Series. Are they also illustrations rather than photographs?

 

Cheers, Stefan.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Stefan Buysse

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Stefan Buysse said:

 

Mikromir's 1/144 kit has a decal option for XH592 of No 232 OCU.

 

Maybe XH592 went to the OCU as a pilot trainer and as a real tanker? The illustration in the On Target Special does have wingtip refueling pods. Maybe it's just an illustration? On Target's reference is "Warpaint Series No36". I'm not familiar with the Warpaint Series. Are they also illustrations rather than photographs?

 

Cheers, Stefan.

There are a number of images available of XH592 after retirement to 2 SoTT at Cosford showing her wearing tactical red and blue national markings with 232 OCU’s double arrow emblem on the fin, what they don’t show is any form of AAR tanker fit.  I think, without being able to get to my references at this red-hot second, is that the OCU used her as a crew trainer to maximise availability of the desperately-needed tanker fleet rather than giving pilots practice at driving aeroplanes.

[Adam Poultney]

hmm I never noticed that... I can't find any pictures of XH592 with the pods for a tanker. If she was used as a training aircraft I don't think that's too unusual, XA940 (also depicted in the mikromir kit) was a standard B1 just with a camouflage paintjob (including the early wing leading edge which the kit does not depict). 

 

Shame Cosford scrapped her, from photos it looks like the aircraft was in pretty good shape... They really did like to scrap v bombers... xa900, xa923, xh592....