Brushing white with enamels

[PhantomBigStu]

Time and time again I’ve proved inept at using Halfords rattle cans for painting white, and indeed brush painting white was a failure with Humbrol (required too many coats) and Vallejo (started to peel off at the wing roots) but have seen some good results on here using brush painted enamels and I’m ok with using enamels for special occasions though the drying times I’m sure will infuriate me. So what brand do others recommend I give a go, can try Humbrol and Revell immediately but I’m guessing I can find better ones online 

Edited November 6, 2019 by PhantomBigStu

[Dads203]

Vallejo is probably the best acrylic paint you can brush paint with Stu so it doesn’t leave you many options in that department. I would consider getting an airbrush to get a smooth even paint finish, you will never look back once you learn the basics. It’s easier to learn Airbrush painting than cracking the brush painting to a very high standard, plus you won’t have issues with the more difficult colours to brush on. 

[ElectroSoldier]

The real key to success with white is the primer or base coat which is always best from a rattle can or airbrush

[PhantomBigStu]

On 11/6/2019 at 1:13 PM, Dads203 said:

Vallejo is probably the best acrylic paint you can brush paint with Stu so it doesn’t leave you many options in that department. I would consider getting an airbrush to get a smooth even paint finish, you will never look back once you learn the basics. It’s easier to learn Airbrush painting than cracking the brush painting to a very high standard, plus you won’t have issues with the more difficult colours to brush on. 

Yes, Vallejo brushes nicely, but as I said I found it started to peel off. Also I have no interest in an airbrush, I can’t be dealing with all the faffing around, would kill the fun 

[Dads203]

52 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

can’t be dealing with all the faffing around, would kill the fun 

But have you tried one Stu ? 

[lasermonkey]

Maybe it's worth trying a Tamiya rattle can?

[Giorgio N]

Another vote for Tamiya spray paints, IMHO they are far superior to Halford's or similar products when it comes to our hobby.

Strange that you had problems with Vallejo white peeling off, did you prime the area below ? 

Vallejo also offers a white primer that sticks very well to bare plastic, the problem is that while this can be brushed it's a bit too thin for that (it's designed mainly for airbrush use) so it will require a lot of coats to give a good cover.

[PhantomBigStu]

43 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Another vote for Tamiya spray paints, IMHO they are far superior to Halford's or similar products when it comes to our hobby.

Strange that you had problems with Vallejo white peeling off, did you prime the area below ? 

Vallejo also offers a white primer that sticks very well to bare plastic, the problem is that while this can be brushed it's a bit too thin for that (it's designed mainly for airbrush use) so it will require a lot of coats to give a good cover.

I did but on reflection it was a cheaper supermarket own brand and not Halfords proper stuff, really odd as the rest of the paint was well adhered. But I shall give Tamiya a chance once a suitable subject is in my hands

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:14 PM, PhantomBigStu said:

Also I have no interest in an airbrush, I can’t be dealing with all the faffing around, would kill the fun 

 

Each to their own etc but brush painting loads of coats and still not liking the finish sounds like a fun killing faff too.

[PhantomBigStu]

3 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Each to their own etc but brush painting loads of coats and still not liking the finish sounds like a fun killing faff too.

Seen a few RFI's on here done with the brush and enamel combo that certainly good enough for me. 

[Smithy]

On 11/6/2019 at 9:56 AM, PhantomBigStu said:

Time and time again I’ve proved inept at using Halfords rattle cans for painting white, and indeed brush painting white was a failure with Humbrol (required too many coats) and Vallejo (started to peel off at the wing roots) but have seen some good results on here using brush painted enamels and I’m ok with using enamels for special occasions though the drying times I’m sure will infuriate me. So what brand do others recommend I give a go, can try Humbrol and Revell immediately but I’m guessing I can find better ones online 

 

Bit late to the party here but I'm a brush painter and another who would never go back to an airbrush as I loathe the things.

 

I recently did the Airfix 72nd Hurri with the black white underside scheme using my usual Humbrol enamels. As others have mentioned it's important to prime if you're painting white and I did so with good old Humbrol 64. As with any brush painting, thinning the paint is the next most important factor. I was very pleased with how it turned out and most importantly it was a lot of fun to do.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Smithy

[Steve Noble]

I never understand all the negativity towards using an airbrush? It's never felt like a faff to me, in fact quite the opposite. I see it as a very useful tool in my arsenal, just like brushes are too. Prime with Tamiya aerosol primer and spray Mr Color paint thinned with levelling thinner. The finish will amaze you!! However if you absolutely must brush paint my preference would be primer from an aerosol followed by enamel..

[John]

I agree with the comments about preparing your surface with a light grey primer. Humbrol 64 is fine.

 

For relatively small areas of matt white, I mix Humbrol 34 and 28 in about 1/3 to 2/3 proportions. The 28 gives the mixture a bit of "body" and makes it much easier to brush paint. It also reduces the starkness of the white. It still looks white unless it's up against neat white. I use this mixture and Humbrol 67 for 1/72 invasion stripes, and it looks good.

 

This is purely personal, but I'd also suggest getting hold of some older blue-stripe or grey-stripe tins from Ebay if you don't have any around. They can still be found and can be a bit more amenable to brush painting that more modern formulations.

 

John

[Smithy]

54 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

I never understand all the negativity towards using an airbrush?

 

I'll never understand why airbrush users act incredulous when people say they don't like using them. It's a subjective thing like almost everything with our hobby - what subjects we model, what paints we favour, what scale, etc, etc. Some people love using airbrushes and others don't.

 

It's funny though because if someone says they dislike brush painting you never see a brush painter disputing or questioning the fact but whenever someone here on the forum says they don't like airbrushing there's incredulity from at least a couple of members!

[Steve Noble]

2 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

I'll never understand why airbrush users act incredulous when people say they don't like using them. It's a subjective thing like almost everything with our hobby - what subjects we model, what paints we favour, what scale, etc, etc. Some people love using airbrushes and others don't.

 

It's funny though because if someone says they dislike brush painting you never see a brush painter disputing or questioning the fact but whenever someone here on the forum says they don't like airbrushing there's incredulity from at least a couple of members!

Who said they dislike brush painting, certainly not me? I even offered relevant advice at the end of my comments regarding brush painting and how to get a decent finish. I use both an airbrush and brushes, because there is always some small part of a model that simply cannot be airbrushed and must be brush painted. An airbrush is simply a tool that takes practice to master. Some people find them very easy to use, some don't. I guess I'm the type of person who never gives in easily and won't be beaten. Because sure, at first it's a steep learning curve, but practice makes perfect as they say. I suppose when you picked a brush up for the first time you produced a show stopping finish? Probably not. But with practice it got easier and the finish got better? Same with an airbrush. We all make our models in different ways. Give two people the same kit and they will build it two different ways. What's important though is not how it's painted or assembled, but the finished result and weather or not the person who made it is happy with what they achieved. To me that's what model making is all about and what attracted me to it in the first place. I guess there are model makers who brush paint, ones who airbrush and others that do both. What tool you use to achieve your finish is not important as long as you're happy doing it..

[Smithy]

16 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

Who said they dislike brush painting, certainly not me? I even offered relevant advice at the end of my comments regarding brush painting and how to get a decent finish. I use both an airbrush and brushes, because there is always some small part of a model that simply cannot be airbrushed and must be brush painted. An airbrush is simply a tool that takes practice to master. Some people find them very easy to use, some don't. I guess I'm the type of person who never gives in easily and won't be beaten. Because sure, at first it's a steep learning curve, but practice makes perfect as they say. I suppose when you picked a brush up for the first time you produced a show stopping finish? Probably not. But with practice it got easier and the finish got better? Same with an airbrush. We all make our models in different ways. Give two people the same kit and they will build it two different ways. What's important though is not how it's painted or assembled, but the finished result and weather or not the person who made it is happy with what they achieved. To me that's what model making is all about and what attracted me to it in the first place. I guess there are model makers who brush paint, ones who airbrush and others that do both. What tool you use to achieve your finish is not important as long as you're happy doing it..

 

I used an airbrush for quite some time and could get very good finishes with it. However I grew to absolutely hate it. I hated cleaning it, I hated how I was locked to one place to do it - one thing I love to do is paint outside in the garden on a warm, sunny day, and as a process I just disliked it. I love painting with a brush and get enormous enjoyment out of it.

 

I was saying above that whenever someone says they dislike airbrushes, the process of airbrushing or cleaning them, then invariably someone always pops up saying that they can't understand why someone doesn't or wouldn't like them, or that the reason why they don't, must be because they aren't doing it properly. When really the answer is like anything else, some people like using them, some people just don't. The same way some people like to make motorcycle models as opposed to military aircraft, and vice versa. It's just personal preference.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Smithy
Typo

[lasermonkey]

@Smithy that's a lovely finish on that Hurricane! Very difficult to pull off, especially with white.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Smithy]

5 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

@Smithy that's a lovely finish on that Hurricane! Very difficult to pull off, especially with white.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

 

Thanks Mark! It's Humbrol 33 and 34, thinned with Humbrol's thinners and then Panduro's Oceanlack gloss and matt varnishes.

[PhantomBigStu]

To address the comments re an airbrush, it’s really not appealing at all to pay £100+  for device that I have to go down the shed for (with the issues of temperature and the fact I often model at night), and needs a ritual of prep and cleaning to manage. I’m tempted to pick up a pot gonna Humbrol white and some thinners and have a go 

Edited November 20, 2019 by PhantomBigStu

[alhenderson]

Think I'm in a similar boat to you, @PhantomBigStu  Just come back to the hobby after ~20 years away and really struggling with painting, esp gloss.  I'm loathe to get an airbrush, partly due to the feeling that there's a lot involved (cleaning, thinning, etc) and partly due to the investment required.  I'm sure once you've done it and picked up the skills its great, but I'm just not sure at this point that I'm going to be a prolific enough modeller to make that worthwhile.  Besides, I happily brush painted before and they generally speaking turned out fine - so I should be able to do so again, right?

 

I have some gloss white bits on the Phantom I'm currently building and having tried a Mr Colour acrylic white have had to go back to Humbrol enamel.  That has proved to be OK for wheel wells etc where I probably don't want the finish to be perfect white anyway, but I'm not convinced its realistic for doing any white on an airframe.  I have a USN A-4 sitting around which I'd like to finish.  I actually bought Tamiya rattle cans of gloss white and grey primer at the weekend to see if they would give me a happy halfway house.  First go last night with them, the white didn't go too well, it was dripping off the spare spitfire wings - maybe I was too close or too heavy handed.  The primer seemed to be easier to use.  Clearly more practise needed, might also try the white over the primer.

 

It can get frustrating having to put so much thought and effort into the paints when all you really want to do is crack open a tin and get painting..

 

Al.

[Smithy]

If the finish is white, yellow or red I will always prime the model first. I don't bother with anything fancy, and just use Humbrol 64 which I always have on hand. I find if I don't use primer with these colours I end up wasting more time trying to lay more layers of paint to try and get good coverage (and actually not using primer with those colours invariably means that I'm guaranteed not to get as nice a finish).

 

Being a brush painter and also using enamels I have to be a little patient but I find this not to be a big deal because I always have some other part of the assembly to do work on whilst I wait for a coat to dry on other parts of the assembly.

 

As I mention above, the two most important things I have found with getting good finishes with brush painting are: 1) Good brushes; and 2) Thinning the paint with the appropriate thinner and to the right consistency.

[Giorgio N]

On 11/26/2019 at 1:04 PM, alhenderson said:

Think I'm in a similar boat to you, @PhantomBigStu  Just come back to the hobby after ~20 years away and really struggling with painting, esp gloss.  I'm loathe to get an airbrush, partly due to the feeling that there's a lot involved (cleaning, thinning, etc) and partly due to the investment required.  I'm sure once you've done it and picked up the skills its great, but I'm just not sure at this point that I'm going to be a prolific enough modeller to make that worthwhile.  Besides, I happily brush painted before and they generally speaking turned out fine - so I should be able to do so again, right?

 

I have some gloss white bits on the Phantom I'm currently building and having tried a Mr Colour acrylic white have had to go back to Humbrol enamel.  That has proved to be OK for wheel wells etc where I probably don't want the finish to be perfect white anyway, but I'm not convinced its realistic for doing any white on an airframe.  I have a USN A-4 sitting around which I'd like to finish.  I actually bought Tamiya rattle cans of gloss white and grey primer at the weekend to see if they would give me a happy halfway house.  First go last night with them, the white didn't go too well, it was dripping off the spare spitfire wings - maybe I was too close or too heavy handed.  The primer seemed to be easier to use.  Clearly more practise needed, might also try the white over the primer.

 

It can get frustrating having to put so much thought and effort into the paints when all you really want to do is crack open a tin and get painting..

 

Al.

 

If you had paint dripping, then you applied too much paint. This as you say could be due to spraying too close or heavy handed. With spray cans it's important to apply many light coats rather than a single thick one.

 

More in general, spray cans are a very useful tool, but when it comes to value for money they are not really the best product around. A bit OT, but while £100 for an airbrush may sound like a lot of money, in the longer term spray cans can cost much more than that, and often they can be even more frustrating than an airbrush...

Said that, while I own 2 airbrushes, I still find spray cans useful in certain situations.

[alhenderson]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

If you had paint dripping, then you applied too much paint. This as you say could be due to spraying too close or heavy handed. With spray cans it's important to apply many light coats rather than a single thick one.

 

More in general, spray cans are a very useful tool, but when it comes to value for money they are not really the best product around. A bit OT, but while £100 for an airbrush may sound like a lot of money, in the longer term spray cans can cost much more than that, and often they can be even more frustrating than an airbrush...

Said that, while I own 2 airbrushes, I still find spray cans useful in certain situations.

You're right about value for money - £5.99 for a 100ml tin is a little steep, esp with the amount I'm using to practise!  The cost isn't the problem with the airbrush necessarily, its the fact that I would then have to move and do all my painting in the garage rather than the spare room.  And that's likely to mean I do a lot less of it 😞

 

Al.

[Graham Boak]

Try getting a fan for the spare room.  Not that I quite understand the problem- after all, spray cans smell, and spread the paint mist around, so act just like the worst combination of a real brush and an airbrush.

[Kushan_Farsight]

53 minutes ago, alhenderson said:

You're right about value for money - £5.99 for a 100ml tin is a little steep, esp with the amount I'm using to practise!  The cost isn't the problem with the airbrush necessarily, its the fact that I would then have to move and do all my painting in the garage rather than the spare room.  And that's likely to mean I do a lot less of it 😞

 

Al.

Ill have a dig about, but ive seen some designs for small 'booth' for spraying, generally designed so you can pop open a window and a small electric fan will pull fumes through an exhaust vent to the outside. Im contemplating it as im thinking of investing in an airbrush, and currently i have to pop outside into the garden any time i use a spray can!

 

 

EDIT - found the link. its a bit crude, but im sure can be adapted/improved as needed!

https://www.instructables.com/id/Small-Spray-Booth/