Supermarine S.6B - Pavla Models - No. 72060 - 1:72 - Finished!!!

[Johnson]

Hi Folks,

 

Cleaning up the parts; fuselage, floats and wings before they get assembled. But when cleaning up the port wing I noticed that it was deformed, not badly but enough to justify correcting the worst of it. The leading edge was deformed near the fuselage. I've got round this with filler and a bit of sanding on the other side and I'll be doing a bit of re-scribing. But I've also noticed that the whole wing is slightly curved. Not much, only a few thou. These problems probably go back to when the kit was originally produced in resin.

 

 

I think I'll have to live with it. I'm worried that if I try to correct it I will only make matter worse, or even ruin it completely as any correction will involve heat. If it were resin a dip in hot water and strap it to a flat surface would cure it, but styrene is different and just bounces back. If anyone has any experience with similar problems, or advice on how to bend the wing just a few thou, I'd love to know.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

[Courageous]

Bit of a 'bummer', don't know if hot water will do much to correct. Sometimes you have to live with what you've got.

 

Stuart

[DMC]

Ok, what I would try, were it me, is, using a piece of wood slightly larger than the wing and with a the barest of a reverse curve, clamp the wing to it and, indeed, run hot, not boiling, water over the wing.  I’d let it cool completely, cold water cool, check it out and if need be try it again but don’t overdo the reverse curve or the hot water temperature.  Use clamps instead of string or tape for easy removal.  Take it slow.  Might help.

 

Dennis

 

[Mr T]

Reading this with interest as I have recently got the kit out of the stash with a view to doing it. Using the resin beaching trolley to help aligning the floats looks like a good plan. 

The Haynes manual on the Supermarine racers is quite useful and there is some discussion on the blue paint. The Science Museum is definitely a repaint and in general the airframe is suffering. The current paint is flaking off and the original lighter blue is visible. Compared to most biplanes the rigging does look quite 'chunky' and I think Adrian is right re the stretched sprue. You do seem to be making good progress with this and good luck with it, it will look smashing when you have done. 

[Johnson]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

barest of a reverse curve, clamp the wing to it and, indeed, run hot, not boiling, water over the wing.

Thanks Dennis, a good plan!

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

I have recently got the kit out of the stash with a view to doing it. Using the resin beaching trolley to help aligning the floats looks like a good plan. 

Thanks Mr T. It's a good kit. I don't have the earlier ones but it's probably streets ahead in terms of surface detail. But not, as you may have read, without it's 'challenges' 

I pinched the float idea from the Hyperscale review!

 

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

The current paint is flaking off and the original lighter blue is visible.

I've yet to research the colour, but I was thinking that a lighter blue was more likely. I have a wide range of paint to choose from, so I'll keep my options open, and then get it wrong! 

 

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

Compared to most biplanes the rigging does look quite 'chunky' and I think Adrian is right re the stretched sprue.

Having looked at the walkaround Pete sent me the link to, I completely agree. They appear to be slightly flattened or oval steel rods. I have some strip styrene that may just do the job.

 

Cheers,

[Johnson]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

Ok, what I would try, were it me, is, using a piece of wood slightly larger than the wing and with a the barest of a reverse curve, clamp the wing to it and, indeed, run hot, not boiling, water over the wing.  I’d let it cool completely, cold water cool, check it out and if need be try it again but don’t overdo the reverse curve or the hot water temperature.  Use clamps instead of string or tape for easy removal.  Take it slow.  Might help.

 

Dennis

 

Worked!

 

I tried multiple attempts, poring the water onto the wing for a few seconds, using increasingly hot water from the kettle and only got a result when the water was actually at the boil!

 

There's still a bit of warp in the wing (I wouldn't suggest flying with it ) but it should be fine for the model. Just got to stick it to the fuselage now.

 

Thanks Dennis.

 

Cheers,

 

[bigbadbadge]

Excellent glad that worked Charlie, some very useful information there stored for future use if needed. Thanks for sharing.

Keep up the good work

All the best

Chris

[pheonix]

Glad you have got the wing sorted out - the improvement will make you feel better even if the original warping would only be seen by the most eagle eyed!

 

With reference to bending styrene using hot water, I know a large number of people argue for hot but not boiling water. I frequently bend styrene sheet in a pipe for wing blanks and I always use boiling water for about 10-15 seconds followed immediately by cold water to "set" the plastic. I find that unless the water is boiling the plastic is not flexible enough - BUT I do not leave the plastic in the boiling water for too long or it will curl at the edges. I think you used the correct approach - increase the temperature until you get the effect that you want.

 

P

[Johnson]

A bit of progress, got the wings and tailplanes on;

 

 

I drilled holes in the fuselage and added corresponding pegs in the wings and tailplanes to align the parts, was still tricky to get them lined up. I numbered the parts as I didn't want a mix up when fitting, especially the engine cowlings which were Araldited on. A bit of filling and cleaning and I can tackle the floats! 

 

Cheers,

[Courageous]

I know that she'll look a beaut in the end but those engine cowlings look huge!

 

Stuart

[Johnson]

10 minutes ago, Courageous said:

but those engine cowlings look huge!

They do Stuart! I think the colour difference between the grey styrene and the yellow resin exaggerates them slightly and they (hopefully) will look better when painted.

 

A Rolls-Royce 2,300 hp R-Type engine. Just think of the power in such a small airframe!

 

Cheers,

[PeterB]

The museum one in the walkround shows that they were pretty big as they had to shoehorn a ruddy big V type engine into a very narrow fuselage - these are in effect blisters over the top of the two banks of cylinders I presume. Looks like they were painted silver so they will still stand  out against the blue!

 

Pete

[Johnson]

To my mind, the most elegant of the Supermarine racers was the S.5 with it's amazing Napier Lion engine.

 

 

The view to the front can't have been good. But what a beautiful plane. Nothing in 1/72 but a firm called MikroMir seem to be talking about making one.

 

https://www.72news.eu/2018/05/mikromir-supermarine-s5.html

 

[DMC]

Agreed re the S.5

[Johnson]

I drilled and pinned the float support legs with corresponding holes in the fuselage, but the first attempt was a disaster, the angle at the top of the rear supports was completely wrong and I had to add plasticard wedges at the top, re-drill and pin.

 

 

Second attempt... bingo!

 

 

Great! She's starting to look more like an S.6B 

[bigbadbadge]

Oh yes, looking good Charlie

[PeterB]

Nice looking machine Charlie,

 

Now its painting time I guess so nearly  done.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[CliffB]

It's looking every bit a racer now Charlie.  A great photo of the S.5 too - seeing the size of the pilot's head makes you realise how compact these aircraft were.

 

Cheers

Cliff

[Courageous]

She's looking great.

 

Stuart

[AdrianMF]

Nice work on the legs!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[PeterB]

Hi Charlie,

 

Just noticed I have the old Profile Publications work on the Supermarine racers - S4-S6B - I will dig it out and see what is in it - anything that would be of interest/use to you ?

 

Later

Just had a quick look and further to a previous question, this says that the vertical tail was slightly smaller in area and the floats a good deal longer  on the S6B than what they call the S6 - no mention of S6A though perhaps that was used retrospectively after the B was produced. 

 

Pete

Edited December 2, 2019 by PeterB

[Courageous]

9 hours ago, PeterB said:

no mention of S6A

I believe that the S6 became the S6A when the S6B came to fruition, so the S6 is an S6A...I think .

 

Stuart

[busnproplinerfan]

This is a nice model, this one's looking quite good. I made the same one to, https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235055844-pavla-172-supermarine-s6/

I kept mine straight from the box except I tweaked the trestles to fit better.

[Johnson]

15 hours ago, PeterB said:

Just noticed I have the old Profile Publications work on the Supermarine racers - S4-S6B - I will dig it out and see what is in it - anything that would be of interest/use to you ?

Later

Just had a quick look and further to a previous question, this says that the vertical tail was slightly smaller in area and the floats a good deal longer  on the S6B than what they call the S6 - no mention of S6A though perhaps that was used retrospectively after the B was produced. 

Hi Pete,

Pavla provided two rudders, I used the one for the S6B which has a protruding trim tab, but no other discernible difference. The profile specs you sent me were very useful. The S6 (S6A?) floats are 19' 5" and the S6B 24' 0". This difference was been mentioned in post #11 by @greggles.w and I admit that I've been rather ignoring the issue as I'm building it OOB and there's nothing I can do to change the float length. But interestingly when measured the kit floats are 22' 10", not really S6 or S6B!

 

5 hours ago, busnproplinerfan said:

This is a nice model, this one's looking quite good. I made the same one to, https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235055844-pavla-172-supermarine-s6/

I kept mine straight from the box except I tweaked the trestles to fit better.

Hi @busnproplinerfan,

Thanks for your post, you made a super S6B, that's pretty much what I'm aiming for. It's been and continues to be an interesting and challenging build. And I'm not sure I'll have time to create a sea scene either Stuart! Much as I'd like to, I'm not even sure how to go about it. Maybe in the future.

 

I'm trying to decide whether to paint first or add the rigging (or spars), so any advice much appreciated everyone! I'm erring towards adding the spars first, though I haven't figured out how to make them yet - being flattened steel rods!

 

Then there is the the painting and that elusive blue colour of the S6B. Lots of discussion on the internet about it, nothing definite, though the consensus is that it was a lighter blue than what's currently on S1595 in the Science Museum (which might be RAF Roundel Blue). I will paint it lighter, but it will be a bit odd, I've seen S1595 many times and rather got used to it. And without your post I'd have got the paint height on the floats incorrect as I hadn't noticed the difference (!) which may have been to do with one of them carrying fuel to offset the engine torque?

 

Lastly, I'm not 100% convinced that S1595 was as glossy as the S6a N248 painted as S1596 now on display at Solent Sky. Period B&W photos show her more as semi-gloss which probably reflects the paints used at the time and the hard life led racing in a maritime environment.

 

Cheers,

[Courageous]

The dilemmas we modelers have with our builds but we can only do what we can with the data we have at that time.

You mention two float sizes but I think their was a racer that had two different sized floats on the same aircraft, hopefully not an S6! 

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

create a sea scene

If you keep the idea simple, then they are simple enough to do but with an encroaching deadline, I can understand the reluctance when you have 'bigger fish to fry'.

 

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

being flattened steel rods

Something I have been wondering about as I think they're only about 1" wide, that's about 0.3mm in 1/72. So I reckon, if you get some 0.2 aluminium tubing and flatten it, cut it a little longer than needed. Make a few correctly placed 0.5mm holes in fuselage and wings and AFTER painting, glue them in. I personally would paint it first, then spar and rig it but their are those in the GB who fit everything and paint it...horses for courses.

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

painting and that elusive blue colour

As has been mentioned before, you can't rely on museum displays as reference. I think you need to go with your gut with a little bit of 'best fit' and stick with it. Then, when you build an S6A, an S5 and an S4, they'll look beautiful .

 

I have a similar problem with my Caudron 714R Racer on colour. It is in a museum but in bits, believed to have not been touched since it was hidden away in 1939. It is a very dark blue, almost black but look at the few models that exist, they've painted it a much lighter blue? Why, don't know, they must have a reason? And as I have a number of Caudron racers to do, I need to sort that out for me.

 

Stuart