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Andy350

Need some airbrush advice please!

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I bought a very cheap airbrush from Amazon just to see if I was going to continue to use, with my Tamiya acrylics it works ok.  But, whenever I've used Vallejo primers it blocks up, and even worse when I use Humbro Enamel.  I think it might be because the nozzle is too small.  I've even used the Vallejo airbrush flow improver but it still clogs up.

 

As I enjoy airbrushing can anyone point me the direction of a new compressor and airbrush please?

 

Many thanks

Andy

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I use Vallejo Acrylic Polyurethane Surface Primers too. I believe the tendency to clog up is the polyurethane drying too quickly in the nozzle. I haven't found a cure for it, but I tend to work faster and clean the nozzle more frequently. Not an ideal answer, but it works for me.

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First a few questions. What size is the nozzle? 0.2mm? 0.3mm? larger?

 

Vallejo also has a retarder, but it still is a pain to airbrush. Humbrol enamel shouldn't be a problem. What you write makes me think of tip-dry, mostly thinner/pressure related. All depends a bit on the pressure from the crompressor (advisable is +/- 1 bar) and the thinner and amount of thinner you use. You can play with these parameters and see which result suits you best... after all it is still a tool with which you'll need to learn to work. For practice I can advise an empty bottle or tin can, because that surface doesn't suck up the moisture like paper. 

 

For example, when I spray tamiya, I use more thinner than paint. (60/40 ratio)

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5 minutes ago, Silenoz said:

First a few questions. What size is the nozzle? 0.2mm? 0.3mm? larger?

 

Vallejo also has a retarder, but it still is a pain to airbrush. Humbrol enamel shouldn't be a problem. What you write makes me think of tip-dry, mostly thinner/pressure related. All depends a bit on the pressure from the crompressor (advisable is +/- 1 bar) and the thinner and amount of thinner you use. You can play with these parameters and see which result suits you best... after all it is still a tool with which you'll need to learn to work. For practice I can advise an empty bottle or tin can, because that surface doesn't suck up the moisture like paper. 

 

For example, when I spray tamiya, I use more thinner than paint. (60/40 ratio)

I really don't know what size the nozzle is.  It is very small.  The compressor work at a maximum of 25psi.  It doesn't have a reservoir.

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I would definitely advise you to get a compressor with a tank, and work at as low a pressure as you can - I was advised "just a puff".

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I suspect some of your problem could be because you are using a mix of different paints.

What thinner & cleaners are you using with Vallejo, Tamiya and Enamels ??

 

Paul

 

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39 minutes ago, little-cars said:

I suspect some of your problem could be because you are using a mix of different paints.

What thinner & cleaners are you using with Vallejo, Tamiya and Enamels ??

 

Paul

 

I was using Isopropyl alcohol for everything, but then I remembered when I was young I used white spirit.  Can you recommend any compressors and airbrushes please?  I'm not after the best, just something a bit better that gives a more consistent result.

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Now I get it.

 

Isopropyl is good for lacquer based paints like Tamiya and Gunze. Lacquer thinner too, dries less fast than isopropyl.

 

Vallejo is water based, so isopropyl condenses way to fast for Vallejo. It will look like it hardens in the cup itself I presume? You need a water based thinner (revell aqua thinner, thinner from MIG, AMMO, or whatever (ex-)Jimenez Company you prefer) or water, but then you can't spray several layers without getting the paint dripping of the model when building to much layers .

 

Humbrol is enamel based, so that one needs synthetic thinner to thin the paint... don't think you can mix those (humbrol and alcohol) in the cup, or it will look weird.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Silenoz said:

Now I get it.

 

Isopropyl is good for lacquer based paints like Tamiya and Gunze. Lacquer thinner too, dries less fast than isopropyl.

 

Vallejo is water based, so isopropyl condenses way to fast for Vallejo. It will look like it hardens in the cup itself I presume? You need a water based thinner (revell aqua thinner, thinner from MIG, AMMO, or whatever (ex-)Jimenez Company you prefer) or water, but then you can't spray several layers without getting the paint dripping of the model when building to much layers .

 

Humbrol is enamel based, so that one needs synthetic thinner to thin the paint... don't think you can mix those (humbrol and alcohol) in the cup, or it will look weird.

 

 

 

Just to add about thinners, for the tamiya paints I used X-20A, for the primer, I didn't just used the flow improver.  Fore the enamels straight from the tin.

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You'll need to thin the Humbrol enamels in order to spray them. You can use white spirit (but NOT Bartoline Low Odour White Spirit- that'll turn it into a gloopy mess. Ask me how I know!), cellulose thinners or, better still, Humbrol's own brand thinners. I usually thin them to the consistency of semi-skimmed milk (or thereabouts) but you may find a different consistency that works better for you. I tend to spray at 12-15 psi, maybe 18 at a push.

 

As for acrylics, you will probably find that each brand has its own foibles and you'll need to discover and learn how to deal with them. In my experience, there was no one solution. I would always use Liquitex Slo Dry retarder, as this prevents acrylics from drying in the nozzle. For the likes of Aeromaster/Polly Scale and Lifecolour, I used nothing but water to thin with. I tried using Tamiya's  and Ultimate's  thinners for the Tamiya acrylic, but found they gave a grainy finish. I bought some Mr Levelling Thinner to see whether that improves, but haven't tried it as yet. Most people swear by it though.

 

Learning to use an airbrush takes time, so don't be in any kind of rush. Practice on an old model if you have one to hand, or buy a cheap kit to experiment with. You'll discover in time what works best for you and what annoys you beyond belief!

 

Best regards,

Mark.

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You can also use lighter fluid to thin enamels - works a treat and rather more matt than if you use cellulose (they give a slight sheen). It also dries super quick - very useful if spraying a colour with poor coverage like yellow.

 

Will

Edited by Scimitar F1

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6 hours ago, Andy350 said:

I was using Isopropyl alcohol for everything, but then I remembered when I was young I used white spirit.  Can you recommend any compressors and airbrushes please?  I'm not after the best, just something a bit better that gives a more consistent result.

I've had a number of customers using different types of paint & different cleaners. Tamiya X20A is known to gunge up  Vallejo paint and then the brush. You need to clean the brush & flush it through with cleaner , then water before going to a different paint type.  Personally I would choose one paint range and stick with that if you can. 

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20 hours ago, little-cars said:

I've had a number of customers using different types of paint & different cleaners. Tamiya X20A is known to gunge up  Vallejo paint and then the brush. You need to clean the brush & flush it through with cleaner , then water before going to a different paint type.  Personally I would choose one paint range and stick with that if you can. 

After my issues I'm not going to use enamels anymore.  Sticking with Acrylic.  Thanks

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10 minutes ago, Andy350 said:

After my issues I'm not going to use enamels anymore.  Sticking with Acrylic.  Thanks

Probably not what you want to hear, but not all acrylics are the same, either... Your best bet is choose a range that has the colours you need in it, and buy the same thinner, cleaner, retarder etc. Don’t assume that one brand thinner will thin a different brand of paint: it’s just as likely to turn it into Copydex-like gloop. IMHO Hataka and Lifecolor are good ranges, but Tamiya and Vallejo are more widely available...
best,

M.

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7 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

Probably not what you want to hear, but not all acrylics are the same, either... Your best bet is choose a range that has the colours you need in it, and buy the same thinner, cleaner, retarder etc. Don’t assume that one brand thinner will thin a different brand of paint: it’s just as likely to turn it into Copydex-like gloop. IMHO Hataka and Lifecolor are good ranges, but Tamiya and Vallejo are more widely available...
best,

M.

Ok thanks, that does make sense.  

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Try to use the same brand thinner as the paint itself. It works with the paint because it was designed by the paint maker to do just that. Also the pressure. I never understand why people spray with such low pressure? I always spray between 25-30psi for everything, get a great finish and have no problems...

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Since I have been cleaning the airbrush to much I have now lost the tiny jet that is very small.

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42 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

I never understand why people spray with such low pressure? I always spray between 25-30psi for everything, get a great finish and have no problems...

I always take pressure recommendations with a pinch of salt, anyway. There’s a huge difference in air flow rate at “20 psi” between my Eclipse and old Badger 200, and the same’s true for the Procon Boy versus the Evolution. I just tune it for the paint and type of finish I’m trying to achieve — Luftwaffe mottle needs a different approach to 2K clearcoating a car body...

beat,

M.

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25 minutes ago, Andy350 said:

Since I have been cleaning the airbrush to much I have now lost the tiny jet that is very small.

I’m afraid that sounds like new airbrush time. Spares for “cheap” Amazon airbrushes are going to be hard to come by....

best,

M.

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If by "tiny jet" you mean the bit that looks something like the 3rd part from the left, part #3, "Nozzle (H3)", in this Iwata parts illustration, then you're stuck until you replace it. You could use the airbrush without the 2 parts to the left--perhaps 1 part in your kit--but you risk damaging nozzle and needle.

 

I have a tankless Iwata Power Jet Lite compressor that provides excellent service.

 

@Silenoz asked a key question about nozzle size; I'm sure the instructions or packaging indicate the nozzle size. Typical sizes used for modelling are in the range 0.18mm to 0.70mm are all possible sizes. I have 0.3mm and 0.6mm airbrushes.

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Thanks for the responses, I did look at the instruction, nothing about size, just PSI.  I think I will upgrade to something with a compressor with a tank.

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Hello, Andy.  I myself over the last year have switched to using Vallejo Acrylics to include their polyurethane primers.  My experience with Vallejo is only use their airbrush thinner to spray with.  Recommended thinning ratio usually works out to be about 40% thinner.  You can also add a couple of drops of their flow improver as well to slow the tip drying from paint drying on the needle or in the tip.  Once your tip does dry (you'll know because there is no paint spraying), dip a soft brush in their air brush cleaner and gently clean the tip, give it a test spray to check the flow and flush the cleaner from the tip, and get back to work.  As for Vallejo primers, my first use of them was a disaster.  I used way too much pressure and sprayed too heavily and they never dried.  Now I use about 15 psi, thin to about 60% primer to 40% thinner, and spray misted coats about 6 inches away.  The primer dries in about 15 minutes and then I go back and spray another bit heavier coat, and so on, until I am satisfied with the coverage.  Now just because the primer is dry, it is not cured.  Curing takes about 48 - 72 hours.  I point this out because if you intend to sand after the primer coat and the primer is not cured, it will peel off in sheets (ask me how I know!).  It's pretty amazing stuff but finicky.  

As for the airbrush and compressor, I am a fan of "you get what you pay for".  For decades I used a solid, well built cheap airbrush and compressor and made due and was satisfied.  Again, in the last year I upgraded to a more expensive airbrush and a compressor with a pressure gauge and external tank.  It was made a huge difference!  Good luck!

Vallejo's YouTube channel has good tutorials on their products (https://www.youtube.com/user/vallejocolors).  

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hi guys little tips to thin some colors

Vallejo, lifecolor or vililic use Vetrix ,Vetril or similar no isopropil 60-70% frist coat will be very trasparent but the other will cover good

Gunze tamyia isopropil or specific thinner

ak enamel , model master tamyia yellow cap or specific thinner

thinning vareie fro airbrush to airbrush 

hope is usefull

 

Edited by spartacus2000

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