.303 ammo belts in 1:48

[Paul Needs]

Hi. I’m sorry if this has been asked before - I *have* tried searching but haven’t come up with anything.

 

I’m hoping to build a small diorama in 1:48, of a Spitfire(s) being resupplied. BOB era. I’ve come up with the Airfix 3-way bowser, figures and Mk1/2 aircraft. BUT I’m at a blank when it comes to the resupply for the 303s.

 

Firstly - history. We’re the guns refilled using pre-filled ammo boxes, or were belts fed into the ones in the wings?

 

Secondly - I know I’ll need to mess about with the original kits to open up the panels to the gun bays - and pertinently find a supply of the actual ammo belts/containers. I’ve seen some gun bay detail kits are available, but.. ammo?

 

So any suggestions for both issues would be very greatly appreciated. I’ve just started modelling again after more than 40 years, and things have changed somewhat! I’ve only vague memories of the Airfix 1:24 Spitfire Mk1a I made way back then, but do remember there was some detail in the fun bays. Short of buying one literally for reference, I’m out of ideas for narrowing down research as there’s so much to filter!

[Troy Smith]

33 minutes ago, Paul Needs said:

Firstly - history. We’re the guns refilled using pre-filled ammo boxes, or were belts fed into the ones in the wings?

pre filled boxes

posed shot

 

the panels hanging down are the ammo bay doors

this is training film

 

cannon armed, but the outer 0.303 are the same.

there are some still here from a film, also showing rearming

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/various-spitfires

 

1.30-1.45

 

33 minutes ago, Paul Needs said:

Secondly - I know I’ll need to mess about with the original kits to open up the panels to the gun bays - and pertinently find a supply of the actual ammo belts/containers. I’ve seen some gun bay detail kits are available, but.. ammo?

the new tool Airfix Spitfire I/II kit has the option to open up some gun bays.

IIRC some ground crew figures sets have figures rearming,  

 

I'll have a search and add in anything relevant.

 

PS

Eduard do a set with rearming figures

I don't think it has the cannon belts

 

Aber do .30 and .50 photo etch ammo belts

https://www.super-hobby.co.uk/products/Ammo-belts-.30-and-.50-604248.html

 

 

[Grey Beema]

As Troy says above the new tool Airfix 1/48 Spitfire comes with guns, ammo boxes and the upper surface of the wing adaptable so you can cut the three inner gun covers away on each wing.  You will however have to open up the lower surface from scratch, which isn't too difficult.

 

 

[Paul Needs]

Thank you so much guys! I have the Eduard figures kit here in readiness, and I’ll have a scout about for that Airfix kit!

[Troy Smith]

49 minutes ago, Paul Needs said:

and I’ll have a scout about for that Airfix kit!

not available at present, but I'd bet that it will be reissued for next summer. 

Be aware, that there are two Airfix Mk.I/II kits, the new tool, 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/supermarine-spitfire-mk-i.html

and one from the early 2000's, which requires a fair amount of work to make a decent model.(it's a bit clunky and chunky,  an needs a lot of refinement) and does not have the gun bay option.

 

3 hours ago, Paul Needs said:

I’ve just started modelling again after more than 40 years, and things have changed somewhat!

Many new kits are CAD designed, and fit very precisely, enough that missed sprue nibs or a coat of paint can throw off fit, especially in early stages and cause major fit problems later.

Though I have seen a few folks who don't seem to realise this, and moan about the kits 'faults'

In the case of the new tool Spitfire, the issue has been the fuel tank cover, as this is fitted later, it has been found 'not' too fit.

The method of attaching the UC legs is blinkin' awful, and that was poor kit design.

Tamiya have done a new tool Spitfire Mk.I as well, which is highly rated,  and, again, they did a 90's issue Mk.I, which while a great kit, is not a very accurate one....

This build of the old tool Tamiya vs the new Airfix (the Vb kits are the same kits with different wings in both cases) 

discusses the points above,(including what is wrong with the Tamiya kit, and some corrections)  and is well worth a read, as some very neat modelling on display.

 

CMK do a resin gun bay set for the Airfix kits ( I presume for the new tool) 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/CMK4338

 

note this does not have the underwing panels or ammo boxes.... my cynicism is coming out here, given that open gun bays are usually about rearmament...

 

finally

3 hours ago, Paul Needs said:

I *have* tried searching but haven’t come up with anything.

site search isn't great.  I usually just use google, and add Britmodeller into the search term, which does work well.

But as you can imagine there have been an awful lot of Spitfire related questions on here... my advice on this, choose your thread heading carefully,  remember you can edit this later if you need,  and ask specfic questions, 0.303 gun belts in 1/48th  isn't really what you were asking, or was only part of it,  BoB Spitfire rearmament details is more what you were asking about.

Not a problem,  just an observation from having spent too long on here.... 

When you start your project, I suggest a Work In Progress thread (like the one I linked) as it's a great way to pick hints and tips,  don't worry about 'it's not good enough'  the site is very supportive,  and helpful.

If it has been 40 years, you will find some older assumptions on some detail have changed or been revised with further research

RAF vehicles will be army colours, so the bowser will be Khaki Green G.3 with a dark Green G.4 disruptive pattern,  I can supply mixes for these if you need.

seen here

and most of the inside of the Spitfire in the BoB era is aluminium dope,  not grey green, only the cockpit is.

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235062850-spitfire-vb-trop-gun-bay-flaps-colour/

 

 

Hope of use

T

 

 

[Selwyn]

16 hours ago, Paul Needs said:

Hi. I’m sorry if this has been asked before - I *have* tried searching but haven’t come up with anything.

 

I’m hoping to build a small diorama in 1:48, of a Spitfire(s) being resupplied. BOB era. I’ve come up with the Airfix 3-way bowser, figures and Mk1/2 aircraft. BUT I’m at a blank when it comes to the resupply for the 303s.

 

Firstly - history. We’re the guns refilled using pre-filled ammo boxes, or were belts fed into the ones in the wings?

 

Secondly - I know I’ll need to mess about with the original kits to open up the panels to the gun bays - and pertinently find a supply of the actual ammo belts/containers. I’ve seen some gun bay detail kits are available, but.. ammo?

 

So any suggestions for both issues would be very greatly appreciated. I’ve just started modelling again after more than 40 years, and things have changed somewhat! I’ve only vague memories of the Airfix 1:24 Spitfire Mk1a I made way back then, but do remember there was some detail in the fun bays. Short of buying one literally for reference, I’m out of ideas for narrowing down research as there’s so much to filter!

"We’re the guns refilled using pre-filled ammo boxes, or were belts fed into the ones in the wings?"

 

The answer is Yest to both. If you had spare ammo magazines you filled them when the aircraft were flying  and changed them on turnaround. If you didn't have spare magazines you took the  empties out refilled them and reinstalled them into the wing.

Later  with cannons , again early 20mm installations had a 60 round magazine  late installations used belt tracks in the wing.

 

Selwyn

[Troy Smith]

37 minutes ago, Jordi said:

Spitfire .303 guns were rearmed using the lower wing hatches only.  The upper wing hatches were used to remove/service/clean the guns.  The ammo boxes fit in from underneath.

yes,  for the ammo boxes, but the upper hatches are used to pull the belt feed straps through and cock the guns. 

see here , links to specific segment

 

There may have been a way to do this from the lower access hatch,(I have a vague memory of this being discussed)  but the section above shows the proscribed method clearly. 

As can be seen, feeding the belt feed strap and cocking the gun are a lot easier to do from above.

 

 

[Selwyn]

45 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

yes,  for the ammo boxes, but the upper hatches are used to pull the belt feed straps through and cock the guns. 

see here , links to specific segment

 

There may have been a way to do this from the lower access hatch,(I have a vague memory of this being discussed)  but the section above shows the proscribed method clearly. 

As can be seen, feeding the belt feed strap and cocking the gun are a lot easier to do from above.

 

 

A way was devised by RAF armourers to reload the guns without de -panelling the upper wing to save turn round time between sorties.

 

Selwyn